PC1 My updated opinions, not happy

[Richard Eriksson]

Ok, so i tried the latest build again after being away from the title for a while. Now that it is closing completion, i felt like having a look at it again to see how it's come along.

And i have to say that as a simulation fan i am very concerned, still. The physics and vehicle dynamics are completely off! For instance, i tried the Zakspeed Capri (one of my all time fav cars) on
Azure... I managed to make a full speed, 65 deg. turn at 255 KM/h. without losing grip at all, while shifting gears!? Now, for anyone who have witnessed the DRM Capris in real life,
this is a joke. Also, the suspension model of all cars are a travesty... Completely ridiculous with the feel of a souped up Burnout Paradise arcade car.

Try the Focus RS, for the worlds most hilarious representation of understeer/snap.

Or try some race car. The on-rails feel and "dead" response is really, really not a good representation of the involved dynamics.

Also, full on braking at 250 KM/h. renders no stability change, lift off oversteer is non existant, weight transfer in general can not be felt.

It's Gran Turismo for PC, but worse. Or in other words, it's Shift 2 all over again. I'm sorry, but this is what i feel.

The FFB is completely dead. Not that it matters, due to above physics issues.

Even the biggest selling point, the visuals, or not that fancy any more. I ran it at max settings 1080p, and i have to say, some textures are really poor... Soft lighting and dnb are weak etc.
AC is prettier, because it looks a lot more natural. Also, the screenshots on pCars that are dislayed in PR materials is a joke. It does NOT look anywhere near that, even at max settings.
There is a lot of post-processing there.


So for me, this is still a "simcade" racing GAME not a simulation. It's in the same vein as Gran Turismo (but worse), Shift-series, Codemasters releases (but worse) etc.

Don't get me wrong, it will be a success and i am glad i invested in it, back in the day. It will sell on the pretty screenshots and it will probably do well for ppl playing with
controllers on consoles. There it may be a nice casual offering, with many cars and some nice effects for the new gen consoles (albeit it will run 30 fps most likely).

But it's still not for me.

I know casual "simcade" is the goal of this title, but in that segment i think Codemasters, despite their flaws, have the realistic dynamics spot on. This is much worse.

 

[ouvert]

wow .. i can`t imagine something worst than Codemasters GRID Autosport .. from pC I`m expecting Froza/GT simcade for PC (not disaster like Shift2 thought) so i`m fine with less simulation in it .. but aren`t there only few cars with proper "finnished" physics right know in latest builds? at least that is what guys defending this game are claiming over and over again .. we`ll see after release, i`m still hoping it will end up just fine ..

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

Ok, so i tried the latest build again after being away from the title for a while. Now that it is closing completion, i felt like having a look at it again to see how it's come along.

And i have to say that as a simulation fan i am very concerned, still. The physics and vehicle dynamics are completely off! For instance, i tried the Zakspeed Capri (one of my all time fav cars) on
Azure... I managed to make a full speed, 65 deg. turn at 255 KM/h. without losing grip at all, while shifting gears!? Now, for anyone who have witnessed the DRM Capris in real life,
this is a joke. Also, the suspension model of all cars are a travesty... Completely ridiculous with the feel of a souped up Burnout Paradise arcade car.

Try the Focus RS, for the worlds most hilarious representation of understeer/snap.

Or try some race car. The on-rails feel and "dead" response is really, really not a good representation of the involved dynamics.

Also, full on braking at 250 KM/h. renders no stability change, lift off oversteer is non existant, weight transfer in general can not be felt.

It's Gran Turismo for PC, but worse. Or in other words, it's Shift 2 all over again. I'm sorry, but this is what i feel.

The FFB is completely dead. Not that it matters, due to above physics issues.

Even the biggest selling point, the visuals, or not that fancy any more. I ran it at max settings 1080p, and i have to say, some textures are really poor... Soft lighting and dnb are weak etc.
AC is prettier, because it looks a lot more natural. Also, the screenshots on pCars that are dislayed in PR materials is a joke. It does NOT look anywhere near that, even at max settings.
There is a lot of post-processing there.


So for me, this is still a "simcade" racing GAME not a simulation. It's in the same vein as Gran Turismo (but worse), Shift-series, Codemasters releases (but worse) etc.

Don't get me wrong, it will be a success and i am glad i invested in it, back in the day. It will sell on the pretty screenshots and it will probably do well for ppl playing with
controllers on consoles. There it may be a nice casual offering, with many cars and some nice effects for the new gen consoles (albeit it will run 30 fps most likely).

But it's still not for me.

I know casual "simcade" is the goal of this title, but in that segment i think Codemasters, despite their flaws, have the realistic dynamics spot on. This is much worse.

You sure it's not down to this known bug with the latest release?
http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/latest-build-testing.55666/page-62#post-1806086
I dunno if they have released a fix for it yet, but it would explain your findings for sure if they haven't.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

I haven't tested pCars in over a week or close to two I think, but this:
"Also, full on braking at 250 KM/h. renders no stability change, lift off oversteer is non existant, weight transfer in general can not be felt."
Does not describe at all what I experienced last time I tried it. Both lift off oversteer and power on oversteer where very much present in the cars I expected it from.
Again, I think you must have been driving the borked build they released last week.

 

[William Wester]

It is a well known bug in the latest release, something introduced by a mistake. Its too bad that each and every development release is treated as cast-in-stone - its important to stay up on discussion on the WMD forums.

 

[Bryan O'Connor]

I clicked on this hoping for some good news to allay my fears through the various recent YouTube videos i have watched. But alas....

Also; Why is this not on Steam as an upcoming release yet?

Anyway i'm outta here before it all kicks off!

 

[Richard Eriksson]

Well. I will put some of it down to the mentioned bug then. But even in previous updates, there have been serious issues with physics. And still are (apart from grip then)... It felt strange before this alleged bug as well.

I can find many more issues, even if i disregard the grip bug. There are also AI issues, and some performance concerns, even this close to release. The visuals look bland and generic compared to AC or even the latest HDR updates to rFactor2 But i have to say, optimization is pretty darn good. It was not before, but now it runs very good.

I think it will compare fine to something like DriveClub and Forza. But to me it's still an EA-free version of Shift 2. That in itself is not a bad thing, it's just not for me. I didn't like Shift 2 and this is basically Shift 3.

I can't seriously look at getting commited to this, when Assetto Corsa has the same visual fidelity as well as a much superior simulation. Also it takes away the trump card of pCars (road cars), by having a nice mix of race cars and road cars as well as good mod support. Also no console release, so no need to simplify the model.

For me it will be rFactor 2 and GSC Extreme for league and competetive racing and AC for some offline casual fun/road cars/pretty car models.

That said, i will check back in time, after bug fix, to see how i feels again. Like i've done all the time during development.

 

[RaceNut]

Yes, the grip-levels are totally bugged ATM. I suggest waiting until the game is complete to make final judgements. Things can change a lot from day to day and there is so much information to follow in order to understand the changes. Every change has "Cause and effect", some of those will break things. It's a complex process. Let SMS finish the game before passing judgement.

 

[DrJustice]

Ok, so i tried the latest build again after being away from the title for a while. Now that it is closing completion, i felt like having a look at it again to see how it's come along.
...
And i have to say that as a simulation fan i am very concerned, still. The physics and vehicle dynamics are completely off! For instance, i tried the Zakspeed Capri (one of my all time fav cars) on
Azure... I managed to make a full speed, 65 deg. turn at 255 KM/h. without losing grip at all, while shifting gears!?
...
etc.

I take it you tested build 803 then, since that's the build that was current when you posted and has been for a few days - right? It's completely borked w.r.t. grip because of a failed experiment that snuck its way into the build. This is a known issue, and the 804 build released tonight should see that error reversed.

You may want to try again with a post 803 build.

So for me, this is still a "simcade" racing GAME not a simulation. It's in the same vein as Gran Turismo (but worse), Shift-series, Codemasters releases (but worse) etc.

Now you may dislike Project CARS all you like, but that's just crazy talk. I'll chalk that down to basing your impressions on build 803, as well as doing it with an obvious negative bias. Coming out of nowhere, testing one bad version and going on to condemn everything about the sim is disinformative for the passers by.

...There it may be a nice casual offering, with many cars and some nice effects for the new gen consoles (albeit it will run 30 fps most likely).

It will most likely run at 60 fps.

I know casual "simcade" is the goal of this title,

That's not the case at all. Where did you get that idea?

(Re. AC)

...Also no console release, so no need to simplify the model.

The pCARS (physics, I assume) model isn't "simplified" on the capable platforms - the Wii U version will probably use a brush tyre model though.

Edit: typos

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

Uh oh, time to get an umbrella methinks ^^

 

[DrJustice]

Edit: Nevermind.

 

[Andy_J]

Edit: Nevermind.

Yes nevermind. What you people hate are others who have a negative opinion after trying the game and then writing down how they feel. Get over it. Let people try it and then dismiss it. It's their choice.

I am looking forward to release date, but I am not expecting this game to be a real sim players sim by any stretch of the imagination.

I will take this game for what it is, pretty and fun with some great single player races hopefully once the AI is sorted and for me that will be enough. But if others compare this game to other simcade games, then so be it. It is their opinion and their right to compare them. They were probably hoping that this would be the sim of all sims due to the fact that the sim community helped develop it. No need to jump on them when they see it isn't what they were looking for. Many probably think with little over 2 months to release, the game is representative of what to expect now both in features and physics etc.

 

[DrJustice]

You don't get it, Andy. It's not about his opinion, I don't contest that. It's about the dubious claims. Like you say yourself, get over it

 

[Chronus]

I know (probably you too) a handful of WMD members whose stakes (related to CARS) are far from insignificant, and they respect the opinions of others. On many occasions I have seen them debate on a point by point, logically, not trying to insult anyone, not trying to win anyone to their side, just explaining things as they see and correcting info that needs correcting. As I and others do, they also reserve judgement until they possess all the facts.

At the other end of the spectrum is a group of "members" who are more papal than the Pope, and they seed flame wars wherever they go. You know the types - janitors and butlers and whatnot...

We could (should?) absolutely disregard these types.

@Richard Eriksson,
you're obviously entitled to your opinion and being disappointed, but here's something that may hint at something very good at the end of the tunel for CARS: some critics who viewed it as a console-game thing have gradually come to see it as a potentially good sim. And some of those include people from motorsports who also are active simracers (and no, they're not being paid to say/write positive things about CARS).

Let us wait some more. The deadline is close but we're not there yet. I suspect CARS will turn out to be a very nice surprise.

Too bad those whose decisions have more weight don't want modding...but still, it may shape up to be a good sim. [After all, team wise, experience and knowledge is there, and a lot of it.]

 

[jimortality]

I wonder why they're not allowing modding.

 

[RaceNut]

I wonder why they're not allowing modding.

Sometimes, it's better to keep things tidy and organized. Modding is anything but that, it's messy. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good mod as much as anyone but, the really, really good ones are few and far between. There are enough titles that include modding and I like that there are others that don't. It makes for some balance in the "playlist".

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

I'd guess that not supporting mods makes it easier to score some licenses.

 

[Andy_J]

I'd guess that not supporting mods makes it easier to score some licenses.

It also makes DLC selling easier. After all, who would be able to sell a F1 dlc pack when some clever modders did it for the love and passion for free.

 

[Andy_J]

You don't get it, Andy. It's not about his opinion, I don't contest that. It's about the dubious claims. Like you say yourself, get over it

What claims? He compared it to other games he's played. Other than that, what claims?

 

[DrJustice]

^ I refer you to the OP and my original posting. I do not accept your invitation to some kind of slagging match - it's futile and not something that RD needs.