My thoughts about the forum and the community

[BhZ]

Lately i've been particularly active on this forum and i took part to many discussions. One in particular got my attention. It was about the fact that fast drivers don't help rookies during practice. I think it's true, but at the same time i think many rookies don't even ask. I raced a lot recently on RD and i think i remember just one question in something like 8 races: "what wings are you guys running?". That was the only question that someone asked during practice. This got me thinking about the community and the forum and i noticed that the majority of the posts here on RD are about peripheral issues, graphical issues, news, random stuff. Now, in a simracing forum i'd expect more questions about cars, tracks, driving tecnique...Asking question in a 30 minutes practice just before the race won't make you a better driver for the simple reason that if you are not already a great driver, 30 minutes are barely enough to stay on track and possibly find good braking points. What will make you a better driver is to ask question on the forum, get an answer to it and apply in an offline session what you just learned until it becomes natural.
Everyone is free to do whatever he wants and race every night with a different car in a different track, but my advice is to take at least half of the days you'd race to just choose a car and a track and practice. Push the car, be curious about where is the limit of it. That is the only way to actually improve. Racing every day doesn't give you the time to get confidence with a car or a track, so you will improve, but at a much slower speed and you won't have time to work on the setup, because it's useless to work on the setup if you still have to find the limit of the car.
So my request is as follows: Ask about anything related to a car or track here on the forum, even if it's a stupid question, there are people here ready to help.
I also have a suggestion for the RD staff: In order to improve the quality of racing on RD, it would be cool in my opinion to have nights where instead of racing, you guys set up a server with a car and a track (possibly a combo that will be used in the next RD event) where people can sign up (like in a normal race) and practice for a couple of hours. So you have some sort of "practice event" where people willing to improve can learn more and where hopefully some of the fast guys (which usually practice a lot) will come as well and help.
Just to be sure, since english is not my first language, i want to specify that this is just my opinion and advice to try to improve the quality of driving. Let me know what are your thoughts about it and if you have other ideas that could make this forum a better place.

 

[RasmusP]

Couldn't read everything in detail but I agree with Kenny. You guys need to use some smileys!
Yes, they mirror my thoughts while reading all these posts!

 

[Brandon Wright]

I paid 10 euros to race, nothing more. I've already said that it's hard for me to understand people speaking in english, especially during an event with the sound of an engine, more people talking at the same time... What i mean is that it's not my job to find new drivers. Obviously if someone asks "should i get premium" i will say yes because it's worth it, but once i get in a race event (not rookie event) my goal will be to win the race and i will focus 100% on my car and my driving style because i have to adapt to the different conditions present in the server. If you want my setup you ask it before the event and i will send it to you like i did with @Bobby Pennington in the last event. To me it's about racing. A race is a competition and once it starts, as we use to say in italy about food, "i have no friends until it ends". This doesn't mean i won't be friendly, it simply means i will focus on my objective. Any real driver will tell you the same.

Which is totally fine and that's probably how most people approach it, I wasn't trying to say it's your job to find new drivers. That's why I tried to clarify that as a long-time race host I'm programmed to see things differently and my main goal has always been to get as many people on the track as possible, competition comes second to that for me. I wasn't trying to say my way is the right way, was just trying to give a different perspective on the situation. But always keep in mind that not everyone in the race has the same objectives/desires as you or I and we shouldn't expect them to conform to our notions (other than racing cleanly).

I said people should care a bit more about learning. That doesn't mean they can't race. I dont care if people are 8 seconds slower as long as they dont spoil my experience (in the same way i try not to spoil anyone's race when i race). What i wish we had is a growing community that learn and help each other. But this is not possible if you have 10% of the drivers that try and learn and the other 90% that simply don't care. I said it before, when i help, i give something but we never get anything in return and never will, because people dont learn. You'd expect a different feeling from the biggest website about simracing.
EDIT: I have no problem sharing tips and advice. I don't like to share setups because that's simply useless. If you don't care about competitivity then why would you need a setup? There's no car on AC that it's impossible to drive with the default setup.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that. It just kinda feels like you're saying everyone should only do it your way and that we shouldn't be willing to help people unless they can first prove they're willing to do some work on their own, and IMO that's not a way to run a friendly club which encourages repeat visitors. But as you said, English isn't your first language so I'm trying not to read into it like that, I'm just trying to present an alternate view from a different perspective. It would be great if everyone wanted to learn and get better, but from RD's point of view I think the main objective is just to get people to show up, which is always harder than it should be.

Anyway, my only goal in all of this was to say that the scenario laid out in the OP that nobody ever helps or talks during the races is not always the case because in our group it's quite the opposite. Everything else I pretty much agreed with and was never trying to argue.

 

[BhZ]

But always keep in mind that not everyone in the race has the same objectives/desires as you or I and we shouldn't expect them to conform to our notions (other than racing cleanly).

And i'm ok with it. As long as people know the rules and respect them, they can race whenever they want. I have no right to decide who should race or not.

It just kinda feels like you're saying everyone should only do it your way and that we shouldn't be willing to help people unless they can first prove they're willing to do some work on their own

What i was trying to achevie with my OP was to get more people into the learning process, which seems to be forgotten. There are people that wants to learn and while this should be the right place to do so, at the moment it's not (talking about medium-high skilled drivers). I was hoping for RD to consider this and possibly do something in that regard.

 

[Kenny Paton]

There are people that wants to learn and while this should be the right place to do so, at the moment it's not

Really, we have a one to one tution available if premium members wish, also Bram holds driver academies in various games, I don't think any other similar racing website offers that. There is plenty of advice and help on the site.

 

[BhZ]

Really, we have a one to one tution available if premium members wish, also Bram holds driver academies in various games, I don't think any other similar racing website offers that. There is plenty of advice and help on the site.

Read again please. I said medium-high skilled drivers. That academy is useless to those people.

 

[Brandon Wright]

What i was trying to achevie with my OP was to get more people into the learning process, which seems to be forgotten. There are people that wants to learn and while this should be the right place to do so, at the moment it's not (talking about medium-high skilled drivers). I was hoping for RD to consider this and possibly do something in that regard.

Yep, I knew that all along and my apologies for leading the conversation away from that, wasn't my intention. I too would like there to be some sort of general discussion area in the clubs section where we can discuss random things related to racing online.

 

[Brandon Wright]

Really, we have a one to one tution available if premium members wish, also Bram holds driver academies in various games, I don't think any other similar racing website offers that. There is plenty of advice and help on the site.

I think he's meaning a place where members can discuss and share tips among themselves and get conversations going. We can do that in the individual race threads now but those are isolated and have a small audience, would be nice if there was a place dedicated to that kind of thing.

Read again please. I said medium-high skilled drivers. That academy is useless to those people.

I'd say I'm medium-high skilled but the academy still benefited me when I did it in December. Most of it was stuff I already knew but having it spelled out kinda helped reorganize it in my brain and I did come away from it a bit faster than I had been. But for sure it's mostly geared toward new racers and not everyone would benefit much from it.

 

[Kenny Paton]

I know several drivers in that skillset who felt they learned something after taking part.
Fortunately RD members have choice of how they wish to approach their hobby and the race clubs are happy to accommodate them.

 

[BhZ]

I know several drivers in that skillset who felt they learned something after taking part.
Fortunately RD members have choice of how they wish to approach their hobby and the race clubs are happy to accommodate them.

I guess it depends on what you mean with medium-high skill level. I don't remember who, but they told me i don't need it. Now listening to you, it seems i need it. I might do it and see what i learn.
I have to be honest, reading some of you admins, it looks like you are advertising the "premium membership" more than answering to me.

 

[Lars Rystedt]

I confused and wish you to clarify some things for me:

"If i share my setup, you may get faster but you'll never get better."

I don't really understand your statement, do I really have to be as good as you to participate in a club race, which I as you have paid the fee for and therefor is eligible?

"There will never be a point were your knowledge will be usefull to me. It should be a give and take, except that it's just a "give otherwise i will blame you on the forum". That doesn't look fair."

No, I will probably never be able to give you any advice that you will find useful, mostly because you already made up your mind. But what is the harm to help me with a setup in a club race, the car setup is truly a great mystery for me and fiddeling with it do for the most time more harm since I haven't got a clue.

"A setup is a fundamental part in racing, especially in simracing since we are both race engineers and drivers. I don't like to share my setup because i worked on it, i spent time to be more competitive."

Yes I absolutely agree, but we are only doing club races which I was told was for fun and driving together. Should I stay out of them as I don't know what to do with the settings?

"I'm sure many do not have time to work on it because they have other things to do, but i see people joining every single race every day. That means that they are just lazy and refuse to try and learn and prefere to do things the easy way. Their way of thinking is "let's have fun, i can just take the setup from someone else and avoid the boring part""

That is a statement that seems very clear to me but I hope I have misunderstood it; Those of us that have no clue how to do a setup, what every little thing does, how they interact with each other are lazy and should therefor not be allowed to join? Even though club races are as I understood it for a fun time. I want to have fun with the game (this is a game for me not a wannabe life) and that mean I really dont want to spend hour after hour trying to understand things I have no experience from.

"I'm more than happy to help someone learn and i think i've already demonstrated it in other posts but i will do so with those i think are worth. Afterall, i'm not obliged to do help anyone, it's just something i can do if i want to."

No your not obliged to and I haven't seen anyone saying that you are, but really, your not that helpful with comments like this. You already stated slower drivers who join a lot are lazy and in another post you said they shouldnt join until they could drive.. that is, as good and fast as you.

As I wrote at the top, I am confused and I hope I misunderstood your post... I really do because else your post look like another "you suck and should not be allowed to ruin my fun" post that seems to pop up more or less every month here on RD. I even asked in Raceroom forum if that was common practice before I even dared to join my first club race. It was then said I wasn't but still... they still come up and are great way to not get new members stay for more than that first year.

 

[Brandon Wright]

I guess it depends on what you mean with medium-high skill level. I don't remember who, but they told me i don't need it. Now listening to you, it seems i need it. I might do it and see what i learn.

If you're as skilled and experience as you suggest I'm not sure you'd learn much. It's really just the basics but for me it was good to polish up on it and have someone tell me what I was doing right and what I was doing wrong.

As I wrote at the top, I am confused and I hope I misunderstood your post... I really do because else your post look like another "you suck and should not be allowed to ruin my fun" post that seems to pop up more or less every month here on RD. I even asked in Raceroom forum if that was common practice before I even dared to join my first club race. It was then said I wasn't but still... they still come up and are great way to not get new members stay for more than that first year.

I do think it's just a language thing. What you described is how it seemed to come across but I don't think he was trying to imply that slower guys shouldn't join or aren't worthy or anything like that. He was trying to encourage an environment where those guys can easily find help and advice so they can better themselves and then won't be dependent on others to help them, but the tone came across wrong which lead to things getting a bit derailed.

 

[Lars Rystedt]

Really, we have a one to one tution available if premium members wish, also Bram holds driver academies in various games, I don't think any other similar racing website offers that. There is plenty of advice and help on the site.

I have participated in the driver academy and it was great! I learned a lot that helped me but seriously @BhZ , do I really have to to be a fully fledged racing driver after that? I am faster but still slow even though I got lot of help and tips. Does that make my head thick and lazy as I am not as good as you?
Do I have to have a certain "lowest quality" in your mind to be allowed into the fun?

I really, really hope I misunderstood your words and intentions!

 

[Brandon Wright]

I have participated in the driver academy and it was great! I learned a lot that helped me but seriously @BhZ , do I really have to to be a fully fledged racing driver after that? I am faster but still slow even though I got lot of help and tips. Does that make my head thick and lazy as I am not as good as you?
Do I have to have a certain "lowest quality" in your mind to be allowed into the fun?

I really, really hope I misunderstood your words and intentions!

No, I don't think that's what he was getting at. All he was saying is that if I were to just always give you my setup then you'll never learn how to tune for yourself. Like the old saying, If you give a man a fish he eats for a day but if you teach a man to fish he eats for life. And right now there's not a good place for people to go and learn tips and tricks about setting up a car other than reading random setup guides that are sometimes confusing or contradict each other. That's one of the main reasons I still can't tune, I've tried several times to learn and feel like I understand the basics but for some reason applying that knowledge to the in-game settings can be extremely confusing and overwhelming so most of the time I just use the stock setup or one I got from a buddy.

 

[Kenny Paton]

My last thoughts on this.
If with your opening post you were pitching for a specific thread/place within RD for general setup tips and driving advice then start one and no doubt members will contribute and that would be a worthwhile place for those who wish to take their hobby further. Most games allow you to quite easily set up a server to arrange meetups for some coaching and discussion and once again I would applaud the enterprise.
Club racing represents different things to different people and there is room for all and should never be discriminatory.
That's what league racing is for.

 

[BhZ]

I don't really understand your statement, do I really have to be as good as you to participate in a club race, which I as you have paid the fee for and therefor is eligible?

Where exactly did i say you can't partecipate? English is my second language, but i don't think i've been so imprecise to let you think you shouldn't partecipate, especially after my last post, where i specified what i meant.

No, I will probably never be able to give you any advice that you will find useful, mostly because you already made up your mind. But what is the harm to help me with a setup in a club race, the car setup is truly a great mystery for me and fiddeling with it do for the most time more harm since I haven't got a clue.

Using my setup won't make you a better driver. On the other hand, it could even make you slower since i love oversteery cars and a rookie may find himself struggling with it. Using someone else setup doesn't help, working together on your setup will and i often offered my help in the GT3s event.

Yes I absolutely agree, but we are only doing club races which I was told was for fun and driving together. Should I stay out of them as I don't know what to do with the settings?

Again, where did i say that? I think you should read the OP again, this time paying attention.

That is a statement that seems very clear to me but I hope I have misunderstood it; Those of us that have no clue how to do a setup, what every little thing does, how they interact with each other are lazy and should therefor not be allowed to join? Even though club races are as I understood it for a fun time. I want to have fun with the game (this is a game for me not a wannabe life) and that mean I really dont want to spend hour after hour trying to understand things I have no experience from.

What i meant is this:
People say it's for fun, but somehow they still want the setup of someone else. Why would you want a setup since it's just for fun and it doesn't matter if you are 5 or 10 seconds slower than the leader?

you said they shouldnt join until they could drive

I seriously have no idea of where you saw that. Looks like you decided i'm a **** and whatever i say, you'll interpret it as "you suck so don't you dare to race with me".

I've already stated it more than once. I have no problem with slower drivers as long as they respect the rules. I've took part to different kind of races here on RD and i still have to see a rookie ruining my race, so i can easily say that i'm not complaining about something that doesn't exist. What i wanted with my OP was to offer help to those who want to get better and hopefully to get admins attention so that they could consider the possibility of doing something to make their drivers more experienced. I hope i do not have to repeat myself again. I understand that the discussion went from a topic to another and then got back to the original one and that can be confusing. This wasn't and it's still not a complaint, this was simply my POV and i was expecting feedback on that regard.

 

[Lars Rystedt]

Where exactly did i say you can't partecipate? English is my second language, but i don't think i've been so imprecise to let you think you shouldn't partecipate, especially after my last post, where i specified what i meant.

QUOTE="BhZ, post: 2511411, member: 207124"] That's why i think that people should start worry about their driving before the actually get on track (obviously if they have time, but then again, who doesn't have time to ask for some tips on a forum?).[/QUOTE]

There you go, but I also asked you to clarify as I could have misunderstood you but now your just contradicting yourself.

 

[Brandon Wright]

What i meant is this:
People say it's for fun, but somehow they still want the setup of someone else. Why would you want a setup since it's just for fun and it doesn't matter if you are 5 or 10 seconds slower than the leader?

Because it's not very fun driving around at the back by yourself. But if a setup can help them at least keep up with the guys at the back then they'll have people to battle with, have fun, and come back for more. It can be just as fun battling for last place as it is battling for first place, but driving around by yourself with no hope of catching anyone is never fun. My only goal for the club races is to have someone to battle with, doesn't matter if it's the leader or deep in the mid-field, and as long as I have someone to battle with I will have fun. Not everyone puts winning as the most important objective for club races.

 

[BhZ]

QUOTE="BhZ, post: 2511411, member: 207124"] That's why i think that people should start worry about their driving before the actually get on track (obviously if they have time, but then again, who doesn't have time to ask for some tips on a forum?).

There you go, but I also asked you to clarify as I could have misunderstood you but now your just contradicting yourself.[/QUOTE]
You took that statement out of context and as a consequence you misinterpret the meaning of it. What i meant (this is getting repetitive) is that if you sign up for a race, instead of asking for the setup once the practice start, have the courtesy to ask it before so that we can then focus on ourselves in those 30 minutes of practice.

 

[Kek700]

I'm glad I am not quick enough to overtake Matteo.

 

[BhZ]

I'm glad I am not quick enough to overtake Matteo.

Not sure what you mean with that, care to explain?