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McLaren and Red Bull have pivoting front wing

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by Dmitry Zaharov, Oct 3, 2012.

  1. http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...fluegel-bei-mclaren-und-red-bull-5819046.html

    Formula 1 technology is again imminent trouble. McLaren has developed a front wing, which has a secret: He tilts at sufficient pressure on the horizontal axis.Red Bull has in Singapore - redrawn - one step extreme.Suzuka want the FIA ​​governing body look exactly.
    Again and again the wings.Remember they still remember the endless discussions in the previous year? Red Bull ran for two years with a front wing, which buckled controlled at full speed. The pressure rose above a certain level, were lowered from the wing tips to the road.
    Thus, under the wing was a tunnel that prevented the air flowed laterally. The air under the center of the car reached more efficiently towards the underbody and diffuser. Some other teams have tried to copy the Red Bull concept, but no one was nearly successful.At Ferrari, for example, experienced adverse vibrations. The wing was re-wrapped.

    Development of flexible wing continues

    Over the winter the FIA ​​tightened the criteria for the stress tests. Thus, the wings flutter had outlived its usefulness. Now conceded even Red Bull chief technical officer Adrian Newey, the existence of one of the flexible wing. He introduced the ban to be one of the reasons why the Red Bull RB8 is not as successful as its predecessor.
    According to insiders Red Bull operation with Fügeln immense effort. It is said to have practically given for each route has its own, tailored to the type and route the output ratios wing type. The trick to have been hidden in the carbon structures that had to twist first before they were able to bend in the desired direction.
    But the secret was obviously not only in the wings, but also in the stilts, to which the vanes are hung. When it became clear that the FIA ​​serious about new stress tests said that some teams had to construct new noses.
    McLaren wing folds hinen

    But what engineers have once learned, they do not forget again. In the Pacific was further researched in this area. McLaren was clearly the decisive gap. According to observers, the entire wing twist on the corresponding pressure on the horizontal axis.The new spoiler is one of the secrets of the superiority of the chrome-colored cars since the Hungarian GP.
    How Auto Motor und Sport in its latest issue (issue 22/2012) reported, has now followed suit and Red Bull in Singapore. The wing may have been a reason for the silver-blue superiority. Other teams had no chance of winning.
    Apparently Ferrari but has discovered the trick and the FIA ​​inspectors alerted. Then there were several discussions between the FIA ​​delegates and McLaren team boss Martin Whitmarsh. A closer look revealed that the two pylons of the nose to hold the main sheet of the wing with only one screw at the front edge. Around these can the entire wing to rotate about the transverse axis.
    Folding panel provides better airflow to the diffuser

    Since the 50 cm in the center of the wing in all cars must be the same shape, causes a rotation of the wing two things. With the regulations required buoyancy in this section is reduced. And the underbody is flown much more efficient. This in turn significantly more downforce at the rear.
    Red Bull has recognized the McLaren-secret first competitor and immediately upgraded.The rotation will be even more extreme than the McLaren. Therefore, Red Bull has launched in Singapore, a new, slightly longer nose. The nose and the center section of the wing had to be matched to the changed flow in torsion.
    It will be interesting how the technique Commissioners react to the new problem. Maybe they will perform in Suzuka torsion. If the wing to twist it at that, the nightmare is prohibited. Otherwise, a new arms race would begin, the only pointless costs money.
  2. Moveable aerodynamic devices are banned, this one should be simple enough for FIA...
    • Like Like x 1
  3. If this is allowed, I want HRT to make a fan car.
  4. It´s the same story with RBR´s flexing front wing in 2010 and 11.

    You can´t prove a wing is designed to bridge the gap to the ground.
    All you can do is make tests (which both have passed)
    If they plan on making new tests then they probably won´t be able to penalize the wings used in older races.

    Seems Ferrari has yet to figured out how to do this.

  5. Red Bull still playing with fire [​IMG]
  6. That is just wrong. That is a moving aerodynamic component.
  7. I have to ask, idk what corner that is but did Webber hit an anti-curb before that? Because then the wing might had contact with the anti-curb causing that movement.
  8. Look at the central section.. That should stay rigid no matter what.
  9. you can actually see the nose itself (where it is painted yellow) bouncing up and down! i must admit i'm not toooo clued up on the rules, but surely that's not allowed?
  10. If it passes the tests then it´s legal unfortunately.
  11. I understand that the nose is not illegal as far as the discussion is concerned on the F1tech forums.

    -EDIT- After more searching this could be quite illegal as mass dampers were considered illegal after Hockenheim 2006.
    Theres still debate about whether or the noses are damaged. And theres debate on whether this nose would even be covered under that ruling. Since flexi wings are pretty much dampers, and they've been cleared if they can take the stress the FIA wants.
  12. The thing is, the wing and the nose might pass their tests, but if there's something in the car that makes the wing pivot, therefore having a movable aerodynamic device (which is abolutely banned) then the car is illegal, regardless of what piece is doing it.

    All this visual evidence, while not counting as real proof for the FIA, should serve as a wake up call so they rethink their test methods, and make the rules clearer. That's if they actually want to keep the playing field level.
  13. So in that case a spring damper would be illegal, which it is. But what if the nose is essentially a flexi wing, which is not illegal, thus there is not a system or device that moves it, rather the cars movement/outside effect ( bah lack of english is not helping here) itself creating the flex effect.
  14. If it behaves like that on design, it's against the spirit of the rules and will be banned. No reprimand because it doesn't violate the written text and passes required tests. Those tests are the only thing that they really have to follow to be elligible to participate and receive full points and money from the race. Each subsequent breach will eventually be defined in the written text (= law...) and test are changed as well, if FIA deems it to be against the "spirit" of the rules.. We all know what that means but you can't just say "no flexiwings" because everything has to be tested in laboratory conditions.. And we all know how easy it's then to find loopholes, you just check how the test is designed and design your parts around that (this is called cheating in some environments, in F1 it's "innovation"... )

    I have to admit, i think that Lotus super drs (or whatever that dud was called) is against the spirit but it's just so genius in it's approach. Where RBR is seeking pure short term gain, they know that theyll be caught, lotus approach is long term, possibly changing all F1 cars.. But try to define why Lotus hyper drs is illegal.. It is extremely difficult to the point that you may have to challenge the overlying principle or "constitution" whether air can be considered as aero dynamic device and if it is, then all air is illegal.. It's a just such a conundrum that i really really hope they can perfect it.. That is what i call innovation.
  15. As far as Lotus vs RBR it´s crystal clear RBR were the smartest bunch.

    Instead of spending a full season on a system that doesn´t work (and probably never will)
    you spend that time actually trying to get the car you have produce quicker laps.
    Even though the Lotus system is legal it can easily be illegal with some text.
    Or atleast make the system completely worthless.
  16. The Lotus system is overtly complex, it may never work... I admit, RBR is more effective of finding loopholes and using them..
  17. Another interesting look at the RB nose.

  18. ^^ wow...
  19. it looks like it's made of rubber ...
  20. Mark Gormley

    Mark Gormley
    #14 | The Silent Killer

    I'm not convinced that twisting nose has any benefit. On another forum someone mentioned that Red Bull lengthened the nose of the car at some point during the season, but naturally kept the same underlying structure so they wouldn't have to do the crash test again, so that's essentially just a light aerodynamic fairing.

    As for all the images of wings wobbling, they've always done that, more so now with the post-2008 regulations where the wings have greater inertia away from the struts. I'd be surprised if it was possible to make the wings entirely rigid due to the aerodynamic loads on them. The wingtips on the average regional airliner are displaced by as much as 6 feet.

    Aeroelasticity is not a new concept, but it is one there's been renewed interest in recently and I'd be surprised if some teams weren't experimenting with different composite layups to achieve some load coupling (perhaps why Ferrari had their wobbly wonders last year?). The problem is that at the minute it's sort of unenforceable as wings are expected to twist and bend anyway under load.