1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
Dismiss Notice
Like RaceDepartment on Facebook.

Featured Massa Excluded from Results Over Tyre Breach

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by Paul Jeffrey, Nov 15, 2015.

  1. Paul Jeffrey

    Paul Jeffrey
    Sim Racing News Editor Staff Premium Member

    mass-31.jpg Williams Martin Racing's Brazilian driver Felipe Massa has been excluded from the results of the Brazilian Grand Prix and has lost his eighth place finish due to a breach of regulations regarding tyre temperature in his right rear tyre prior to the start of the race

    The Williams team have served notice of an appeal following the verdict costing the Brazilian driver three points towards his 2015 championship tally. With Williams position in the Constructors Champion assured already the result has little material difference however it is thought that the team believe the exclusion to be in excess of alleged infringement.

    Posted on the official F1 website the FIA released the following statement:

    "Checks made on the grid by the FIA after the five minute signal had been given revealed that Massa’s right-rear tyre was 137 degrees C, which is 27 degrees above the maximum temperature of 110 degrees allowed by Pirelli.

    The corresponding tyre pressure at 137 °C was 20.6 psi, 0.1 psi above the minimum starting pressure.

    The matter was referred to the stewards who, after hearing from a Williams representative, determined that the team had breached article 12.5.1 of the Technical Regulations, Article 3.2 of Sporting Regulations and Article 12.1.1.i of the FIA International Sporting Code."​

    With the exclusion of Massa from the race results Lotus’s Romain Grosjean and Toro Rosso’s Max Verstappen move up into eighth and ninth respectively, and Lotus’s Pastor Maldonado into the final points-paying position of 10th.

    Image courtesy of www.f1fanatic.co.uk
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2015
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Chris Stacey

    Chris Stacey
    Ted Kravitz Appreciation Society Staff Premium Member

    Just for anyone that may potentially be confused by the
    part.

    This means that Williams were under inflating their tyres and then overheating them to try and bring them up to the minimum requirement of 20.5 psi. Then once the race gets underway, they have an advantage by running lower tyre pressures as the temperatures return to normal levels.

    Pat Symonds you crafty bugger ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2015
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. Surprised there hasn't been a "Oh so Hamilton gets away with it before, but the weekend's local-hero doesn't ?" comment yet, because back when tire pressures came into debate previously, people wouldn't -bleeping- drop that crap, just saying.

    I wonder how the 'whole' of Brazil will/is reacting to this decision.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Chris Stacey

    Chris Stacey
    Ted Kravitz Appreciation Society Staff Premium Member

    Mercedes got away with it in Italy because there was no clearly define protocol for taking the tyre temps and pressures when the rule was first introduced.
     
  5. Vimal Ana

    Vimal Ana
    Always racing, Always flying

    Woa that is some sneaky stuff
     
  6. Lorenzo Bonder

    Lorenzo Bonder
    #forçaChape Staff

    AS A BRAZILIAN, THIS IS AN OUTRAGE OF THE ULTMOST IMPORTANCE! FOM AND FIA SHOULD BE DAMNED AND CONDEMNED BY THIS!

    Just kidding.

    Not that it would make a difference, Massa was battling up between the 7th-10th positions, not that he would be making a huge impact. Also in all seriousness, I really don't know how in all things heavenly in Earth, this Williams car is not a very good aerodynamic car compared to Mercedes and Ferrari , the power core is the same than Mercedes (THE S-A-M-E) and their technical support is nearly the same as Mercedes.

    Driver wise, yeah Bottas (still think he's overrated, my opinion feel free to disagree) can extract more out of the car compared to Massa who I feel won't give another run in 2017 (NASR I'M LOOKING AT YOU MATE!).

    Back to the topic. The disqualification got Massa's chances of a few points in the championship? Yeah, sure. Would it have made a difference in the standings? Erm, no? Most importantly, did make FIA and FOM look bad because of this decision? Punishing Massa during his home country track, where points won't matter to the championship and not punishing Hamilton, where the championship still mattered?

    Hell yes.

    This prove my thoughts. F1 needs an administration cleanup. EVERYWHERE, from championship organizers to the top brasses (that most specially).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Bernd Graf

    Bernd Graf
    Premium Member

    Nico takes another win! Major confidence boost heading into the off season!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Chris Stacey

    Chris Stacey
    Ted Kravitz Appreciation Society Staff Premium Member

    The fact that it was his home race shouldn't influence the stewards decisions at all. Williams pulled a shifty, and got rightly penalised. Again, Mercedes got away with it because there was no defined protocol about when the tyre pressures and temperatures should be taken on the grid at that time. Since then the protocol has been set, and Willaims got pinged.

    Unless it was a faulty tyre blanket, I really can't see why they'd try to break the rules so obviously. Seems like a silly decision.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  9. Lorenzo Bonder

    Lorenzo Bonder
    #forçaChape Staff

    Agreed, I think their tyre tactic didn't meant to be "dirty" at point of Massa being disqualified, because if that happened Bottas could've been disqualified (or not, I don't know if tyre pressure can be changed in F1 from team to team and driver to driver). I believe it was a mixture of bad luck and bad decision.

    But still, I think this Hamilton regardless of protocol or not should've been punished.
     
  10. Chris Stacey

    Chris Stacey
    Ted Kravitz Appreciation Society Staff Premium Member

    Well then both Merc drivers should have been penalised as Rosberg was even further below the PSI minimum than Hamilton. But this could also be attributed to the theory that Rosberg may have had his tyres measured later, thus having more time to cool off and pressures drop.

    Having said that, I don't agree that the Mercedes drivers should have been penalised in Italy. The FIA dropped the ball by having this rule hastily implemented and then suffered the consequences when they allowed for a massive grey area [the protocol itself] in the rule.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Lorenzo Bonder

    Lorenzo Bonder
    #forçaChape Staff

    Really understandable. That's why I say that F1 needs an administration change and organization change. But that won't happen anytime soon.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Milos

    Milos
    Had things gone my way, who knows.. Premium Member

    yes :D
     
  13. Benutzername

    Benutzername
    Online Martini Racing - Founder and driver

    F1 Circus.
    Love it.

    I want to see good races, and not a disqualification because the heat of the tyre was a bit too high, a wing 1mm to wide or anything like that!

    Way too much regulations. With all these rules... Isn't the shape of a F1 car not nearly decided in advance? WHile back in the days constructors build lots of different looking cars, conecpts,...

    F1 gets more and more ridicoulous and less interesting every damn year.
    Fuel saving? Tyre saving?
    I want to see drivers who drive on their limit....
     
  14. Minimum pressure is X. Williams goes a X-1. FIA: -1 has no effect, keep the result. Another team goes X-2, since -1 has no result. And teams end up doing what they want. The rules are there for a reason. No mercy.

    Oh you rubbish modern F1 :cry:
    [​IMG]

    Good old years without fuel saving :p
     
    • Haha Haha x 1
  15. Williams have been doing this for a long time. Keke Rosberg at the Swiss GP at Dijon 1982 ran under-inflated tyres and gained an advantage over the turbos thru the long corners with lower ride height i.e. better ground effect. The turbos weren't able to catch up down the long front straight. He won the race and was his only victory of that season where he won the championship. Some say Williams did the same at Imola 1994.....