Tracks Magny-Cours (2 Seasons) 1.2

[Patrick Giranthon]

Not at all Paulo

 

[Luckyluke76]

Hi Patrick, many thanks to you and to your team for this awesome track (the BEST Magny-Cours version ever made).

Racing offline I've noticed that after the start of the race the AI cars crash almost always on each other before the first left corner going onto the sand and sometimes retiring (not all but a good number of them).

It seems that the cars on the left side of the starting grid follow their line and then with the first corner coming suddenly they go to the right and cause the collision.

I've tried Marcas vehicles, Boxer Cup ones and F3 too but the result is the same.
I've also reduced AI aggression from max to high to medium but without effect.

Can you look at this maybe with Gringo (AI issue ?)

Thanks in advance.
Luca.

 

[Patrick Giranthon]

Gringo Is The man here

 

[Gringo]

I don't think I can do anything on my end to solve this issue. After the first lap the AI sort them selves out.

I could try to narrow the groove width, but then in my experience the AI will just follow each other in a race train and never make passes.
Maybe the grid could be staggered with more spacing, or maybe switch the pole position to the left hand side... but if two AI challenge for the T1 apex then it likely the outside car will run off. This could happen at any time not only race starts.

If there is a real solution it would be something in the AI logic.

The incident packed race starts have always been a weakness with the AI regardless of the track, and kind of realistic if you watch GP2 races

 

[P*Funk]

I also had a woeful experience watching an AI Formula V12 trailing another V12 braking in tandem with the car in front despite him being at least a car length behind, meaning he was doing a stop and start at the corners falling behind rather than catching up the closer he got to the other guy. I'm going to assume this is the result of the changes to AI aggression in close racing and nothing Gringo can control.

 

[Luckyluke76]

Ok
Thank you anyway for the reply.

Luca

 

[Luckyluke76]

Hi Gringo, sorry if I re-open the debate : you say that "maybe the grid could be staggered with more spacing";and if instead you reduce the distance between the left and right row position on the starting grid ? In this way there could be minor lateral movement when coming to the first corner and maybe less crashes.

Just a suggestion
Thanks again.

Luca.

 

[Reb.Ellion]

Is there a reason why the question of the origin of the track is not answered?

 

[Gringo]

@Luckyluke76

You could try AI track learning. I have never tested this in AMS but its worth a try.

http://www.tltracks.com/2009/11/rfactor-ai-calibration/


PS: The only thing I disagree with in the above tutorial is this point...
however if time is a factor then it wont hurt to much.

You can speed up time by typing 'ctrl-T', this will not affect the learning of the AI.
After a number of laps the message appears 'AI finished the learning' or similar.

Thread here discussing how to make it work.

http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/how-to-make-ai-learn-the-racing-line-for-a-track.88801/

 

[Gringo]

@Luckyluke76

I did try the AI track learn at MC and the Boxer AI lap times improved by .7 seconds and the racing seemed a bit better too. However the T1 sand trap still gathered up several cars at the race start.

I did modify the AIW with a few ideas to help the AI at T1 but nothing worked.

The issue cant be fixed via AIW.

 

[Dann Murillo]

So the solution is to race online! It still blows me away why so many people race against AI but to each his own I guess!

 

[Luckyluke76]

@Gringo

Watching a couple of tracks (Vanport new, Melbourne) I noticed that at the start of the race, both left and right row cars go the same way (usually to the right) and so the distance between the 2 rows is stable.

On Magny-Cours indeed the left row cars go to the left and the right row cars go to the right and the distance increases, with a wide space in the middle that then cause the collision approaching the first left corner.
So my question is : can you modify the AIW so both left row cars and right row cars go the same way at the start of the race ?

Don't send me to hell if it seems I'm a jerk, but I know you're probably the best AIW maker here around and my intention is to improve your already excellent work.

Thanks.
Luca.

 

[Gringo]

can you modify the AIW so both left row cars and right row cars go the same way at the start of the race ?

No as far as I know the AI logic decide what actions the cars take.

All I can do with the AIW is define the track edge and 2 racing lines, the AI decide how to use and share the track. Don't forget that AMS is early access and improvements could still come.

You can experiment with AI tweaks...

slowwhenpushed=0.5 <<< try setting 1.0

AIBrakingStiffness=(1.0000,1.0000,0.9000) <<< you can tweak the last number a little bit and sometimes see a change in the AI.... (0.85 to 0.95)

AISpec=(0.0000,0.0000,1.0000,0.0000) // 4 ways to express AI speed on track, limit the acceration, max speed, their cornering speed, or their deceleration. 0.0 - 1.0

AISpec try 0,0,0,0 but I doubt this will change any thing. Don't get crazy with tweaking this variable its either 1 or 0 to notice a change.

Ensure you let the AI qualify properly so that the grid is sorted from fastest to slowest.

Try a rolling start behind the safety car... once you are rolling (you can) hit the space bar to skip the lap behind the pace car. This will teleport the grid to a point just before the final turns. Maybe if the grid drives the chicane then they will separate enough to make T1 without issue.

Set the AI aggression to low. Decrease the AI strength. Some times you get faster lap times and improved behavior from running slightly lower AI strength (just a few percent) it depends on the car type.

 

[Gringo]

I put a few more hours into the AIW trying a few ideas and it seems that the T1 start issue may have an AIW solution, a bit of a hack job on the corridors but it seems to work. It is not often you can dial out poor AI behavior, but what ever... it worked in this case. (I think)

I will attach the alternate AIW to this post. An official update may come later.

Using the original or alternate AIW will not affect online play or cause online miss matches.

Cheers

Download Magny-CoursGP_Su.AIW.txt and rename to Magny-CoursGP_Su.AIW or Magny-CoursGP.AIW and overwrite the originals in the track folder

 

[PieterN]

Thanks Gringo, will try the new AIW today. Lot's of rain expected in Holland, plenty of time for simracing

 

[PieterN]

@Gringo excellent work on the AI. Did several starts in the SuperV8's, Boxers, V10's and Montana's and can report; no more T1-drama for the AI. Thanks man ! Amazing job.

 

[Luckyluke76]

@Gringo

Thank you man, you're the best.
Me too tried several starts and the problem.......puff..........solved.

I've seen you've decreased a lot the lateral movement of the cars at starts and this was the key.

Thanks again.
Luca.

 

[Maxell]

Patrick, during today driving i saw that glasses on pit building are going through those panels. Is it possible to fix that?

 

[Patrick Giranthon]

not sure, if it is alpha on alpha, it always do that... Will happen too if you look grass through these windows...

 

[BTCCFAN2013]

Very nice track to drive. Always loved this place. Nice work