Lotus 49 - Disappointing! :(

[Celtic Pharaoh]

Hi all. Is it just me or is the Lotus 49 too stable? In iRacing or GPL, it really drifts around but in AC, it feels stuck to the road so I don't know how realistic it is. Does anyone else feel the same?

 

[Bakkster]

I don't know what approach they took. What is important is what is working. iRacing is getting better but is not quaite there yet.

That's a much more reasonable way to say what you're getting at than what you said before.

iceRacing is not a good indicator on cars should drive. The simply made cars hard to drive and that's it

We can probably drop the 'iceRacing' rhetoric and just stick with saying the tire model doesn't feel as well and took a long time to develop.

 

[nijeat]

As mentioned I've been really curious and doubted for a long time while watching very few videos of '60s f1 onboard, the typical sliding turn-in is on fact? the cars truly allow you to be drifted or overdrive in safety? hmm just see first below videos and that of the Rossi's..

I see these cars seem truly stuck on their grip anyway and demanding to keep your stability, maybe sliding and skiing could be possible but no one did like games and the cars seem as grippery than what we've seen in the other games.

And, I understand all the devs working hard on their way, and getting complex and probably getting close to truth. But on the other hand after all they must be within the limit, their base physics model, unless they throw away their model like Kunos some years ago. So I'm sceptical on the story that updates can always do something at some future day..

 

[William Levesque]

The first video is onboard a 1.5L F1, around 190-200hp.

The second video is onboard a Formula Vee, around 60hp.

 

[Austin Ogonoski]

Why does this car have so much grip? He's on slicks in the gravel and dirt, yet hes able to drift like it's an arcade game. Pure trash, I'm going back to iRacing. iRacing is more realistic than real life. And even if it's not realistic, it still has the most complete package and best FFB even though the FFB isn't realistic.

 

[William Levesque]

WTF are you talking about ?

 

[nijeat]

Overdriving with joking.

 

[Bakkster]

The first video is onboard a 1.5L F1, around 190-200hp.

The second video is onboard a Formula Vee, around 60hp.

I've also heard it said that until the Lotus 49, F1 cars weren't very rigid. So flexible that setup didn't matter much, which means both of those cars would be in another league from the L49.

“Suddenly, with the 49, you found that small adjustments such as camber and toe-in – things like that – had an effect on the performance of the car when previously they didn’t. So as soon as you had a rigid base to work from you could be more precise, and get the performance you wanted, which was great because those early cars didn’t have the horsepower people now assume they did. The first car to run at Zandvoort in ’67 really wasn’t that powerful: it wasn’t until the end of the following year that they had it up around 400bhp.

“Anyhow, before the DFV arrived running toe-in at the back axle was never a factor, but now it had a dramatic effect, so as you started to understand these new phenomena you could begin to change the attitude of the car as it approached the corner. Whereas before there was just no point: why bother because the bloody thing was like a banana anyway? And that’s what really changed the dynamics of mechanical grip. It was the birth of a new science.”

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/halloffame/colin-chapman/jackie-oliver-on-the-lotus-49/

 

[DewCrew88]

We can probably drop the 'iceRacing' rhetoric and just stick with saying the tire model doesn't feel as well and took a long time to develop.

And costs Almost 200 times the amount AC does?

 

[Bakkster]

And costs Almost 200 times the amount AC does?

I don't think anyone possibly could have spent $10,000 in iRacing. But sure, it's a valid complaint that it's expensive, we don't need to resort to name calling or hyperbole. We're better than that, aren't we?

 

[DewCrew88]

I typed one extra 0

 

[William Levesque]

He mad.

 

[nijeat]

1968 Matra F1 captured last year, not a reference due to not serious laps and its silly angle!!
However, a video driven by Henri Pescarolo himself with Matra which he had driven at that time.

 

[moonwalker]

I'm always amused when people compare it to GPL's one.
GPL's physics are totally fraked up... When I look videos from 60's era F1, they don't drift in every corner, and drivers don't fight with the machine every time they hit the throttle. And as for Iracing, they are the same guys who did GPL (Papyrus). This says long on my opinion on Iracing's physics.

 

[Bluurgh]

I'm always amused when people compare it to GPL's one.
GPL's physics are totally fraked up... When I look videos from 60's era F1, they don't drift in every corner, and drivers don't fight with the machine every time they hit the throttle. And as for Iracing, they are the same guys who did GPL (Papyrus). This says long on my opinion on Iracing's physics.

Well I don't know if i'm right, but isn't that because when playing a sim you're sitting behind your desk, you don't feel any forces or whatever like in real life and when you crash you just start over. You can make setups as extreme as you want (within the limits of the sim) and just keep trying over and over, for hours and hours, until you master the fastest method to drive the car. Back in the days they hadn't the time for that, let alone that extreme setups will lead to an unstable car and all kind of problems related to it (crashes/injuries/death). But I don't know how they would setup their cars, so that's just a guess.

But it could mean one of these two things;

AC is correct, and iRacing has it wrong. Because of the missing forces on your body it feels too easy and some people intentionally tweak their setups into more extreme values to correct it to the point they think it's realistic.

iRacing is right, and AC has it wrong. The drifting every corner is because (almost) everyone is (unintentionally) overdriving the car because of the missing forces on your body.

Or maybe they both just have some things right and some things wrong and it's all up to personal preference.

 

[mantasisg]

Hello, is this topic dead ?

I just "joined" iRacing. And it was really hard to resist only truly attractive car in iR (for classics guy like me).

At first I was amazed how terrible to drive it is, later made it even worse with setup.... to cut long story short, I have used very slightly modified baseline setup in Laguna Seca later, car was better, but still weird, not like I think it should be. I've done plenty of smooth and concentrated laps, driving really puts you in the zone, because you really have to concentrate, it is scary absolute at all times. But I knew that something is wrong in iR anyway, it is just obvious.

Decided to compare pace with AC, in same track. AC car is way more floaty, significantly less grip. I have done plenty of laps in AC too. And gues what....

I was 4s faster in iRacing, and I'm sure I can get even faster.

Now it is very ironic, but makes sense. iRacing Lotus 49 definitely is not simulating authenticly crossply tires. The car generates more grip, than it is designed to deal with, it corners at greater speeds, it reaches greater speeds. The limits are sharper. Thats why it is difficult in iR to drive this car over the limit, because it is really high, the car is on very likely something like semislicks. As this car has no downforce, upwards motion when driving over crests and bigger undulations results in very dramatic moments, as the car is loosing a lot of grip at once, and regaining a lot of grip at once. And it happens at greater speeds than it should. You also have to brake earlier, because brakes doesn't have enough power. It is also a bit too understeery IMO, and not enough oversteery on exits. Oversteering is not a thing at all, because it just snaps on/off like even on slicks maybe.

Being too fast and rewarding on being very smooth might explain why there are some opinions that iR Lotus is easier than AC Lotus.

You may now say that AC car could be too slow ? It just can't be, AC has some historic tracks, and paces fits, maybe it is even too fast in AC too.

Also doesn't look like I will succeed to find a lot of races with L49 in iRacing. I was expecting such professional online services to be more professional. And cars to be more precise. After all they are asking multiple times greater amount of money for their content, and then using it too !!