Losing grip

[markturner]

Hi, I am pretty pleased with my set up in the sim, especially compared to Pcars, I feel AC is the best and most realistic FFB....one issue though - it's soooo easy to lose grip, even in a straight line by overaccelarating...and very easy to lose the grip under braking and almost impossible to feel until the car just keeps going.

Is it really that easy to swap ends in a high powered car under acceleration ?

Is there a way to lessen this or at least to tweak settings so you can feel it a bit easier before it happens? Its like drivng on ice sometimes, some cars are worse than others, but I feel on the whole its way over modelled....what do you think?

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Guys if you don't like to read different opinions on a forum, there is always the ignore button.

People may express different opinions on a forum, and as long as they don't break our rules they are allowed.

This doesn't mean though that you need to read them all.

 

[takfar]

Yeah, I had a *lot* of trouble doing anything in AC, until I adjusted the FFB a bit (default is terrible in T500RS! The freaking thing turns by itself and makes any mistake that much worse). After some tweaking, I can now occasionaly catch a car before it's gone. The RUF still kicks my ass handily, tho...

btw, it *is* easier to feel the loss of grip and correct it in PCars. FFB does feel "faster", and the driving model may be a tad more forgiving. Too bad the roadfeel is so bad in that game... The road feels waaay too smooth, even with Jack's xml FFB files, which greatly improve overall feel and responsiveness.

 

[Kimmo Kokkonen]

Oh god here we go, you again, ...blaa blaa blaa.... Anyway, can we keep the talk in this AC forum to, uhm, AC?

You don't get it??? I just challenge Kunos to do a little bit better better sim, that's all, I know it's still WIP so this is very good information for them (don't say me that they know better than me because I have already proved they dont' and that's all about that).
I also wanna say that PC is very good sim for really experienced sim driver, it's totally different than any other sim, atm AC not give you anything special but eye candy, i'm so sorry but that not a Joke. Most of tracks and cars comes from modders etc, PC includes huge amount of everything for everybody.

 

[brooptss]

k

 

[Radu Oros]

You don't get it??? I just challenge Kunos to do a little bit better better sim, that's all, I know it's still WIP so this is very good information for them (don't say me that they know better than me because I have already proved they dont' and that's all about that).
I also wanna say that PC is very good sim for really experienced sim driver, it's totally different than any other sim, atm AC not give you anything special but eye candy, i'm so sorry but that not a Joke. Most of tracks and cars comes from modders etc, PC includes huge amount of everything for everybody.

AC modded tracks are on the same level and some better than official Pcars tracks (the non-laserscanned ones). The only difference is that pcars has a different type of graphics and track animations, but in terms of track layout, road and kerb feel, is better here.
So I think we are pretty covered on that aspect.
About cars, AC has more or less the same number of pcars, and with the modded cars is already up there.
You've got no leverage on amount, nor in how unique each car and track feels in AC.

 

[markturner]

I appreciate this thread is a bit old now, but I have been spending a fair bit of time lately in project cars and its become apparent to me at least that Pcars is a long way ahead of AC in the way it models sliding and grip. AC has way better road feel in the FFB, but has I feel, a major fault once you lose the grip, nothing that you do will have any effect, the cars just carries on. In pcars, if skillful enough, you can steer the car in the slide with the throttle and brakes, which you really can't do in AC, (or if you can, I have not figured it out......!) and even, get the car back under control - Why is that not possible in AC I wonder ? It's impossible for any inputs to have an effect once the control is lost. In Pcars for example you can very easily feel the front or back begin to let go and slide or spin, then just ease of the throttle and it snaps back in line, not so in AC, once it starts to spin up, that's it........They have the drift track, ( so you would assume it is possible...?) which car and set up is best for drifting in AC ? I would love to try and get a feel for how it works, currently for me, it's either grip or no grip and no controlling things once its let go......

 

[yusupov]

be sure to use street or at least road legal tires in ac when possible. with less grippy tires, you can slide around or drift pretty easily.

i do agree that compared to pcars & rf2, ac is more like iracing when it comes to race car grip. there isnt much progression with slick tires, its pretty close to all or nothing.

i do think pcars is probably a little too lenient about how easy it is to correct, but thats relative to every other sim; i cant say from experience.

 

[Radu Oros]

I appreciate this thread is a bit old now, but I have been spending a fair bit of time lately in project cars and its become apparent to me at least that Pcars is a long way ahead of AC in the way it models sliding and grip. AC has way better road feel in the FFB, but has I feel, a major fault once you lose the grip, nothing that you do will have any effect, the cars just carries on. In pcars, if skillful enough, you can steer the car in the slide with the throttle and brakes, which you really can't do in AC, (or if you can, I have not figured it out......!) and even, get the car back under control - Why is that not possible in AC I wonder ? It's impossible for any inputs to have an effect once the control is lost. In Pcars for example you can very easily feel the front or back begin to let go and slide or spin, then just ease of the throttle and it snaps back in line, not so in AC, once it starts to spin up, that's it........They have the drift track, ( so you would assume it is possible...?) which car and set up is best for drifting in AC ? I would love to try and get a feel for how it works, currently for me, it's either grip or no grip and no controlling things once its let go......

I've seen several race cars at Le Mans 2015 spinning out when they didn't get the corners right either because there was traffic or not long after exiting the pits (colder tires). These race cars, prototypes, GT3, GT2/GTE cars are controllable when you are losing the control a bit. But once the angle of losing control is too big, you can't recover easily. You'll need to cut down the throttle/speed a lot, but you may still spin out. And is not that easy to control a race car about to spin in your room sitting on a chair. You aren't feeling the car with your body, even with the best/most accurate FFB. So in sim racing games, you need to know the right technique, without over steering (too much), know more or less exactly how to modulate the throttle and brakes to put the car back on track.

Look here drifting with the SLS GT3 (not me..)

ps. I also agree with that yusupov said above, except that sliding in AC and Iracing is not comparable. These are two different type of tires sliding. I just don't know right now how to explain.

 

[brooptss]

I appreciate this thread is a bit old now, but I have been spending a fair bit of time lately in project cars and its become apparent to me at least that Pcars is a long way ahead of AC in the way it models sliding and grip. AC has way better road feel in the FFB, but has I feel, a major fault once you lose the grip, nothing that you do will have any effect, the cars just carries on. In pcars, if skillful enough, you can steer the car in the slide with the throttle and brakes, which you really can't do in AC, (or if you can, I have not figured it out......!) and even, get the car back under control - Why is that not possible in AC I wonder ? It's impossible for any inputs to have an effect once the control is lost. In Pcars for example you can very easily feel the front or back begin to let go and slide or spin, then just ease of the throttle and it snaps back in line, not so in AC, once it starts to spin up, that's it........They have the drift track, ( so you would assume it is possible...?) which car and set up is best for drifting in AC ? I would love to try and get a feel for how it works, currently for me, it's either grip or no grip and no controlling things once its let go......

Must be honest I feel absolutely the opposite to you. I feel that AC is the only game I can really feel and control the car when it loses grip, and why it's my main game. I struggle more with this in Game Stock Car Extreme, in that game I feel what you describe here, once its gone there's no coming back, even if I catch it VERY early. In AC I can even manage to trail-brake with some cars, braking into the corner and letting off the brake to push the car around, which you have to be really in-tune with the car to do. I think you should take a hard look at your settings. I'm presuming that your wheel's FFB and damping is set too high. Make sure the FFB in your wheel's software and the FFB Gain in the game isn't set too high, make sure damping isn't set too high (will make the car difficult to recover in a slide, as all the weight gets pushed to the side more than normal), make sure speed sensitivity is at 0, among many more settings.... I can give you my Logitech Profiler and AC game settings if you like. What wheel do you have? Google your wheel's name and assetto corsa settings, you will find forum threads where others with the same wheel give their settings. I'm discovering more and more these days that all these sim-racing titles are quite similar once you really start modifying and tweaking their settings a lot. Each of them require quite a fair amount of time to set up right. I'm sure I can get GSCE feeling as good as AC if I spend more time tweaking it, as you will with tweaking AC.

 

[xnorb]

Just because you can't catch the car doesn't mean the physics are off.
Watch videos of good drivers and see what they are able to recover from.

Setting up FFB correctly for sure is a key factor here, but seeing how Empty Box is able to recover the Skip Barbers from what seems to be guaranteed death (and any other car in any other sim) tells me that i'm just not good enough ... yet

 

[markturner]

I use a Fanatec CSWV1 wheel & pedals and have spent a huge amount of time setting it up, in PCars & AC, using the recommended settings here on this forum, plus Jack spades tweaker files in Pcars. I feel overall, the wheel feels pretty good, with a great mix of feedback - I am not a heavy wheel fan, I like the effects subtle but noticeable. What I am talking about is that in AC, pretty much, when the grip goes, that's it.....you can turn the wheel, take your foot off the throttle, but the car will keep spinning or sliding, once on the grass or gravel for example, you can spin the car a full 360, just by a small acceleration...... My experience of gravel traps in real life is that they are like porridge, slow you down pretty good, certainly not ideal for spinning a car in...If you say it's that easy to drive and control a sliding car in AC, I must be doing something majorly wrong in that case. Which is weird, because in Pcars I can get my BAC mono sideways in pretty much every corner and steer it on the throttle , tighten the turn, spin it up, opposite lock round, so it's not like I don't know how to do this........perhaps you can advise best car & set up to try drifting in? Certainly, not all the cars the cars in Pcars are amenable to it, the BAC mono is particularly easy, but then you do need to start in an easy car to learn it....

 

[brooptss]

I use a Fanatec CSWV1 wheel & pedals and have spent a huge amount of time setting it up, in PCars & AC, using the recommended settings here on this forum, plus Jack spades tweaker files in Pcars. I feel overall, the wheel feels pretty good, with a great mix of feedback - I am not a heavy wheel fan, I like the effects subtle but noticeable. What I am talking about is that in AC, pretty much, when the grip goes, that's it.....you can turn the wheel, take your foot off the throttle, but the car will keep spinning or sliding, once on the grass or gravel for example, you can spin the car a full 360, just by a small acceleration...... My experience of gravel traps in real life is that they are like porridge, slow you down pretty good, certainly not ideal for spinning a car in...If you say it's that easy to drive and control a sliding car in AC, I must be doing something majorly wrong in that case. Which is weird, because in Pcars I can get my BAC mono sideways in pretty much every corner and steer it on the throttle , tighten the turn, spin it up, opposite lock round, so it's not like I don't know how to do this........perhaps you can advise best car & set up to try drifting in? Certainly, not all the cars the cars in Pcars are amenable to it, the BAC mono is particularly easy, but then you do need to start in an easy car to learn it....

I don't have as good a wheel, only have a Logitech DFGT. But I still maintain that something is not quite right with your setup. I have exactly the same issue as you but with a different game: GSCE, so I know what it feels like for you. Not sure what to say really. I've managed easily with a lot of slidey cars, sometimes almost constantly oversteering in a race (like with Mercedes 190 DTM), and have comfortably drifted a lot (there's a thriving drifting community in AC). Don't have much experience with PCars, only a brief test with stock FFB settings, but I found the cars more forgiving and easier to straighten out, but at the same time a bit strange and somewhat unnatural because of it. Most cars in AC can be slid around a little, even the non-drift cars. Maybe hop on one of the servers with the stock "DRIFT" track that comes with the game, and using a "BMW M3 E30 Drift". You can spectate the other drivers and see how your experience compares, even though they are very different to non-drift cars. Maybe check some YouTube videos of AC too? You sound more experienced than me, so I can't really make sense of this. Maybe you should get in touch with some of the guys here with Fanatec wheels (probably easiest if you're on the teamspeak server at same time), they will perhaps be able to help you for this specific wheel in more depth, and really get to the bottom of what setting is doing this.

 

[Ernest Aubert]

Here's a bit of a slide in a Lotus 49. No force feedback, no TC or SC.

 

[brooptss]

Here's a bit of a slide in a Lotus 49. No force feedback, no TC or SC.

Can't understand how you drive without FF lol. The effects may be canned but I'm relying on it so much now.

 

[Ernest Aubert]

I've never used a wheel with FFB. I got mine, a Thomas Superwheel, in 1998, after not being satisfied with a cheap Logitech. At the time, they (Thomas) said that force feedback wasn't implemented very well in any sims, so they decided not to incorporate it. I've since had them convert it to USB and optical. It's been absolutely rock solid.

 

[Glaurung]

I use a Fanatec CSWV1 wheel & pedals and have spent a huge amount of time setting it up, in PCars & AC, using the recommended settings here on this forum, plus Jack spades tweaker files in Pcars. I feel overall, the wheel feels pretty good, with a great mix of feedback - I am not a heavy wheel fan, I like the effects subtle but noticeable. What I am talking about is that in AC, pretty much, when the grip goes, that's it.....you can turn the wheel, take your foot off the throttle, but the car will keep spinning or sliding, once on the grass or gravel for example, you can spin the car a full 360, just by a small acceleration...... My experience of gravel traps in real life is that they are like porridge, slow you down pretty good, certainly not ideal for spinning a car in...If you say it's that easy to drive and control a sliding car in AC, I must be doing something majorly wrong in that case. Which is weird, because in Pcars I can get my BAC mono sideways in pretty much every corner and steer it on the throttle , tighten the turn, spin it up, opposite lock round, so it's not like I don't know how to do this........perhaps you can advise best car & set up to try drifting in? Certainly, not all the cars the cars in Pcars are amenable to it, the BAC mono is particularly easy, but then you do need to start in an easy car to learn it....

If you feel good with FF and physics in pCars then it's normal that AC do not fit your expectations because there is a huge difference between the 2 games in this aspects.

 

[Requiem84]

AC has, I feel, a major fault once you lose the grip, nothing that you do will have any effect, the cars just carries on.

It's impossible for any inputs to have an effect once the control is lost.

Mark, not trying to slag you off here, but I think in this instance it is you who has to look into the mirror rather than blame AC .

Just take a look at a short clip I made, when someone on the AC forum vehemently claimed it was impossible to control any slides in the Ferrari F40. I purposely overdrove the F40, induced a lot of sliding, even at extreme angles. But as you can see, all slides can be recovered.

 

[markturner]

Hey, it's not some kind of blame game, I am trying to understand whats involved in being able to control the cars in certain situations and why. I think you are too used to the fanboi mentality that seems to creep in with certain people whenever AC & Pcars are compared.....I play both, each is a great sim, I would simply like to understand why I can do something in one that I cant in the other........and I am not a crap driver.......I just wish you or some of the other guys who seem to think it's way easy, could sit down in front of my PC with my set up and tell me where I am going wrong.....!

 

[Ernest Aubert]

Mark, could you make a video showing what you're doing and how the car reacts? Not being able to sit at your machine, that might be the closest one could come...

 

[markturner]

Hi, I could try I guess, but so much of it is feel and out of view.........very frustrating. Will try and get something sorted, but dont have capture set up currently.