Logitech Wheel Setup

[RaceNut]

This is a quick tutorial by MozzMann. I take no credit (or blame) for the results however; I find that these settings work for me with RRRE – unlike my commonly used Global Settings. In fact, RRRE feels like a whole new game to me compared to how it started out. There are a few minor things that I have changed from this tutorial but, overall – these settings work incredibly well when combined with a few in-game FFB tweaks.

I am using a G25 and have to admit that I was skeptical when I first read this because it is very different from my Global setup that has worked very well for all other Sims that I have played to date. While my Global setup worked okay in RRRE, the FFB felt very basic and numb. The steering felt a little un-responsive and there was little to no FFB on bumps or drop-offs where the steering should feel “Light”. There was no feeling, what-so-ever, of grip-loss during braking or over-steering and I felt like I was always one step behind where I needed to be – in control. Those issues are no longer a problem. Also, these settings corrected the feeling of low brake power – especially in the GT3 cars and also improved steering response.



RRRE / Logitech Wheel Setup by MozzMann
The opinions expressed here are based on my PC, my Wheel and the way it interacts with the Simulation. Now before you even start thinking about comparing things to ISI, or other SimBin titles DON'T, because settings in RRE are very different to anything you might have encountered previously.

IMHO if you run any of the Logitech Wheels then you MUST run the profiler and make not only a Global Profile but, also a Custom Profile for each Race Sim you use.

1) You MUST run the Logitech Profiler Software
2) You MUST tune the Axis settings to give you MAXIMUM steering Max Brake and Minimum Throttle sensitivity
3) You MUST set a Global Profile and then a separate Profile for EVERY race Sim you run so that settings are never mixed.

I have found that the reason that way too many Sim-players have issues with the Logitech Wheels and others too, is they simply do not understand how the Profiler Software works so they cannot benefit fully.

Go to the Global Device Settings - Use these Settings
Overall effects at 124%
Spring Effect at 50 % (Spring effect is not needed due to the way modern Race Sims work BUT you should set this just the same)
Enable Spring in FFB Games (ticked)
Centering Effect at 50%
Degrees of Rotation 900
(IMHO It's a bit pointless having a 900 degree wheel if your not going to use the fine steering control offered by it)

EXTREMELY IMPORTANT !!!!
DO NOT!! ALLOW Game to adjust settings!!! The reason for this is below.
Allowing the game to change settings is where people go wrong!!!
Why? Well if a Race Sim you use is allowed to change something in the Profiler and then you go to GTR Evo or rFactor, once the Controller.ini file is opened by GTR Evo for instance, what it remembers doesn't tally with the last settings stored in the Profiler (HIDDEN) settings. You chase your tail and can't understand why the Wheel isn't behaving. So now you know, NEVER use the one Profile for your Sim Racing. You may blame the Game / Simulation where in fact it is your wheel doing what it was told because you allowed it to. The Global settings are just that, Global, and what every subsequent Profile uses as a base to work from.

So now that the GLOBAL settings are made then you create a custom Game Profile for RRRE. The settings made in each custom profile are a Percentage of the Global settings made earlier. In this way, ONLY the Profile for (in this case) RRRE will be changed or altered due to its interaction with the Logitech Software. This allows you to change settings specific to RRRE and NOT affect other Sims you use. Settings are allowed to change based on your in-game settings, not the Global settings.

Create a Custom Profile for RRRE.
Use these settings in the RRRE Profile
Overall Effects Strength @ 120% (this is a percentage of the 115% set in Global)
Spring Effect Strength @ 0 %
Damper Effect Strength @ 150% (adds drag to the wheel and helps prevent over correction and smooth’s out your input)
Enable Centering Spring (ticked) but @ 0% (The reason for this is it allows the actual cars camber and camber settings to influence the way you FEEL the road - if this is un-ticked you will not feel this accurately)
Use Special Steering Wheel Settings (ticked)
Report Combined Pedals (user preference)
Degrees of Rotation @ 900 (Recommended)
Use Special Game Settings (Ticked)
Allow Game to Adjust Settings (Ticked)
(These two are very important as this allows the Sim to alter settings INTERNALLY in the Profiler that we cannot see in the GUI)
Controller – Individual Input SettingsCustom settings for Sensitivity, Range and Dead Zone can be set in the Profiler.
Left Click on the Steering Wheel line in the Lower left hand side of the Profiler and select Axis Properties
Set Sensitivity @ 100%, 0% Dead Zone, and 100% Range
(The reason that 100% is set here is to give you me a logarithmic steering as possible with quick responses around the center, still precise yet greatly accelerated deflection the greater the turn). Why? Because it allows a smaller degree of lock thus finer steering in the center with a greater amount at the extremes of steering input, very closely replicating the variable steering racks used in modern race cars.

Throttle Settings
Sensitivity @ 0%, 2% Dead Zone, and 100% Range
(The reason that 0 % is set here is to give you the smoothest throttle transition from partial throttle response to full, varying the sensitivity WILL NOT change the amount at Full throttle just how fast you get there thus 0% is much smoother).

Brake Settings
100% Sensitivity, 2% Dead Zone, and 100% Range
(The reason that 100 % is set here is to give you the maximum Brake response available and allow you to turn down the In-Game settings only).

You can also set various macros for flashing headlights and other things but I will not cover that here.

I did a lot of research and playing around with settings because I found I was getting so much interaction with various simulations.

Now as for the settings in for RRRE these are very subjective and largely personal preference, but I'd like to offer a few pointer's here too.

In the Options I'd urge careful tuning of the Sensitivities based on your Personal style AND whether you use things like a Load-Cell mod for the Logitech.

I have found that turning the sensitivity way down for the Brake and Throttle helped dramatically in preventing loss of traction entering and exiting corner's while having the clutch at full sensitivity was great for Power shifting etc.

By using the above settings in your Logitech Profiler for DF GT Pro, G25 or G27 I believe you will now be able to be smoother and more precise with your steering, and NOT need to change things like steering lock. (Incidentally the steering Lock is the degrees of steering per rotation of the Wheel). If you turn your steering lock up WITHOUT understanding it's interaction with Steering degrees of rotation AND Steering Percentage in-Game, I can almost guarantee you will get under-steer going into a corner and over-steer coming out. This is a direct result of the Game’s interaction with the wheel and Car physics and as I stated above, NEEDS to be fine-tuned based on your PC, driving style, and the actual Car within the Sim. IMHO, all that you should need to change is the Brake and Steering percentage IN-GAME to achieve the smoothness that we all seek.

Feel free to reduce the Steering percentage if you like but it may then feel strange and possibly even vague.


MozzMann

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Again, this all down to opinion in the end but, I feel the FFB has improved in a big way. I haven't followed this guide 100% but, it will get you close to a great setup. Your results may vary but, give it a try and you may find this helpful for fine-tuning FFB in other Sims as well - especially for those having input lag and poor FFB.

In addition to the Profiler setup above, my RRRE in-game FFB settings are:

FFB Effects Level = Medium
FFS = 75%
FFSF = 1.7
FFSGW = 1 (increasing this setting improved grip feel significantly)
SWF = 0.85
FFCE = 0.3
FFCP = -0.6

I have the in-game Wheel Animation on - rotation set to match my G25. Note: Having the drivers arms displayed does limit visual wheel rotation at this time. Use "wheel only" to have the visual match your actual wheel rotation.

Hopefully, this will help those having issues with Logitech wheels in RRRE.

RaceNut

 

[Paul Lock]

its because the settings make the wheel accelerate through the rotation , im not going to go into a big discussion why but lets just say the settings are non linear

Yes I am aware of linearity. Im working on the principal that unless I tell the game otherwise, it's a default 1:1 - so maybe that is my mistake.
However, whilst I get that things may be different here with R3E, (so I am happy to be told otherwise), but I did not detect any 'slow down or speed up' on the wheel travel lock to lock. It simply doesnt register past 180 either side.

"Paul" :- Totally forget about 360 degrees in game from your 540 desired this is irrelevant this is where I believe that adjusting the steering lock will achieve what you want , there are likely limitations within various car models, something that I don't give a tinker's toss about. I want a setup for the wheel the DOES NOT vary from Sim to Sim Car to Car so that I can be more consistent.

I tried a variety of ingame steering lock settings, from minimum to maximum seemed to have no effect. I tried a variety of the free cars, Aquila, Judd and Canhard. From what I experienced, it was a 1:1 relationship up until I got to 180degrees away from centre, then my G27 would continue until the 270degree point, but the car physically would not.
As mentioned above, I didnt detect any wheel accleration that i was achieving 270 'for the price of' 180.

Ironically it isnt a huge issue for me as I do actually use 360, but I was hoping to try more rotation like I can do so easily in every other Sim I have ever played, simply by increasing rotation and keeping it 1:1.

 

[Peter]

It's very easy Paul Lock, I use 540/15 or 1080/30 with a T500. With a G27/25 it's the same like in all other sims. You can easely set your favorite by increasing or decreasing the Wheel lock or match it to real cars. Also the virtual wheel matches 1:1.

 

[Andi Goodwin]

ok ; firstly excuse my graph as it sucks badly but here is my explination of what the game is doing at 100°sensitivity and what a variable steering does ,

starting in the centre ;; the graph plots 900 degrees of rotation (the curves arent real just a visual suggestion )


red is how the wheel ingame runs at 100% sensitivity and the black is what (not exactly ) a variable rack does the centre line horizontal is linear(x access)

looking at the black dots , so a variable rack as we move from the centre with the steering wheel this increases the wheel movement so we get more wheel movement on the track so the centre is a smaller movement (more precise )and as we get to the extremes the wheels move faster (greater distance travelled for same steering wheel ° input) less precision more motion

now with 100°sensitivity (red dots ) the wheel turns from the centre and straight out of the box we are turning the wheel but the wheels are moving more (so in reality if we turn 180° left the wheels would have moved the equivalent of 270 ° left (compared to a linear input )(these figures are an example ) so precise steering only happens at the end of your steering which is inverse to what a variable rack does ; this is why i have a problem understanding this approach to setting up a wheel

i could be wrong i would be right .... but this is my understanding of linear vs variable rack


i would like to add this quote from a study into variable racks
"Traditionally, vehicle steering
systems had a linear relation between steering
wheel rotation and road wheel angle. Nonlinear
steering racks arrived in the last decades of the
20th century with the aim to achieve better
parking characteristics"

Andi

 

[Maurie King]

Majnu ,
First off you make a Global and NEVER allow the Game to adjust settings.

From this the Profiler Software can create individual profiles based on and as a percentage of what you set in your global Profile.


Andi
Directly from Wiki Pedia Steering Ratios

A variable-ratio steering, is a system that uses different ratios on the rack, in a rack and pinion steering system. At the center of the rack, the space between the teeth are smaller and the space becomes larger as the pinion moves down the rack. In the middle of the rack you'll have a higher ratio and the ratio becomes lower as you turn the steering wheel towards lock. This makes the steering less sensitive, when the steering wheel is close to its center position and makes it harder for the driver to oversteer at high speeds. As you turn the steering wheel towards lock, the wheels begins to react more to your steering input.

A bit more

Variable ratio rack and pinion set is commonly used for steering systems on automobiles. Rack tooth surface has to be adjusted in order to achieve variable ratio. Unfortunately, none of existing engineering books provide algorithm for mathematical calculation of the vr-rack tooth surface. Nether gear generating machines exist for generating vr-racks. Complicated software is required to calculate tooth geometry on vr-rack. We have information about only five existing software tool for vr-rack tooth geometry calculation: one from Australia from the original inventor of vr-rack, one from Germany (ZF), and three from General Motors in the US. The currently most advanced and the most accurate software is the one that we have developed for Saginaw Steering System (former Delphi division of GM) in 2001. From our customer’s comments we understand that our software produces the most accurate rack tooth form. The advantage of our software is also capabilities to generate vr-rack tooth forms to mesh correctly with modified (not involute) pinion. While our software has been used for generating of the traditional vr-racks since 1999 this article describes advanced options with tooth profile modification that has not been widely used yet, but also available.

Still more

Powerhouse Museum

http://www.spruson.com/au/pdf/Variable Ratio Steering for Vehicles_2486819_1.pdfhttp://www.spruson.com/au/pdf/Variable Ratio Steering for Vehicles_2486819_1.pdfhttp://www.spruson.com/au/pdf/Variable Ratio Steering for Vehicles_2486819_1.pdfA bit more still about Mr Bishop

 

[Jebus]

Is that variable ratio stuff used in racing? Somehow that sounds more like "civilian" car technology.

 

[Maurie King]

Yes it is used in racing , some drivers prefer it and some not,

Paul have you set 100% in the Profiler as well They all interact unfortunately on some systems not very well.

Like you Andi this is a bit rough but might go a long way to explaining what I am replicating.

The Green trace is Linear or 50 % sensitivity in Game , the Red is approximating 0% , now the Blue is 100% sensitivity but with the steering lock turned down you get a very smooth curve in the centre about 90-120 either side of centre and then this rapidly accelerates toward the 180 Deg mark and beyond.

Couple this with tweaks to the Steering lock usually down so there is fine movement in the centre .

This should reinforce what I have been trying to get across regarding the sensitivity not changing the Degrees but the speed at which the Sim traverses from centre to full lock in either direction.

 

[Paul Lock]

It's very easy Paul Lock, I use 540/15 or 1080/30 with a T500. With a G27/25 it's the same like in all other sims. You can easely set your favorite by increasing or decreasing the Wheel lock or match it to real cars. Also the virtual wheel matches 1:1.

I tried a variety of ingame steering lock settings, from minimum to maximum seemed to have no effect.

Had already tried 540/15 (as I mentioned) and the result was most certainly is not like all other sims. I realise how easy and simple it is, which is why I scratching my head with the r3e setup.

Paul have you set 100% in the Profiler as well They all interact unfortunately on some systems not very well.

If you mean 100% sensitivity & range in my r3e profile wheel settings - yes. As mentioned before, I have set it up as per the OP guide apart from the rotation which i put at 540. both global and r3e profile.

 

[Andi Goodwin]

Yes it is used in racing , some drivers prefer it and some not,

Paul have you set 100% in the Profiler as well They all interact unfortunately on some systems not very well.

Like you Andi this is a bit rough but might go a long way to explaining what I am replicating.

The Green trace is Linear or 50 % sensitivity in Game , the Red is approximating 0% , now the Blue is 100% sensitivity but with the steering lock turned down you get a very smooth curve in the centre about 90-120 either side of centre and then this rapidly accelerates toward the 180 Deg mark and beyond.

Couple this with tweaks to the Steering lock usually down so there is fine movement in the centre .

This should reinforce what I have been trying to get across regarding the sensitivity not changing the Degrees but the speed at which the Sim traverses from centre to full lock in either direction.

but the blue line should be inverted as at 100% its the other way up so making it impossible to do what you are trying to do ; it also would follow the mirror of the red line as both are 50% away from centre; not the fantasy curve you have created on the blue one ....thats how i read it

Andi

 

[Shogun_X]

Thanks for posting this. I had a similar setup but the wheel was hard to control and this setup made everything much smoother.

 

[Majnu]

RaceNut and Maurie King - I've completed the Guide into a kind of Noob friendly format, but have some questions. If you don't mind and have the time could you reply to the comments I've left?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1flGl8k8rjAkdD9GNyy3daeH-SHKtJc5ZoqbaswjGnnA/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks

 

[RaceNut]

RaceNut and Maurie King - I've completed the Guide into a kind of Noob friendly format, but have some questions. If you don't mind and have the time could you reply to the comments I've left?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1flGl8k8rjAkdD9GNyy3daeH-SHKtJc5ZoqbaswjGnnA/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks

Nice work on compiling and formatting the information. Aside from my In-game settings listed in my original post, I will defer to Maurie for the finer points of the remaining information as he created the original guide. The only thing that I would add is that my in-game settings are merely for reference and are a WIP at this point as I continue to test various settings.

Maurie, over to you . . .

 

[RaceNut]

Regarding steering linearity, the curved graph that Maurie has shown makes more sense to me based on my understanding. IIRC, RBR uses such a graph in the steering adjustments and could serve as an excellent example of how the steering input curve applies to car control.

 

[Maurie King]

but the blue line should be inverted as at 100% its the other way up so making it impossible to do what you are trying to do ; it also would follow the mirror of the red line as both are 50% away from centre; not the fantasy curve you have created on the blue one ....thats how i read it

Andi

No Andi, if it were the other way up ie inverted then if you went to the graphic representation in game the steering would start from the outside, question do you have rFactor? if so are you using the Xui 1.8 interface instead of the ghastly stock offering. If you go to the steering control config area and hold say 90 degree steering input and vary the sensitivity and watch the steering input scale , As far as I am aware the scale is correct.

 

[Maurie King]

Had already tried 540/15 (as I mentioned) and the result was most certainly is not like all other sims. I realise how easy and simple it is, which is why I scratching my head with the r3e setup.



If you mean 100% sensitivity & range in my r3e profile wheel settings - yes. As mentioned before, I have set it up as per the OP guide apart from the rotation which i put at 540. both global and r3e profile.

This could be your issue you must set 900 Degrees everywhere for ANY of these settings to work properly.
ie 900 in Global 900 in RRE Profile and the steering Axis @ 100% along with the in Game senvitivity @100% & Steering lock at between 11-18 say you can reduce the sensitivity to abour 35% to get more feel but you MUST increase the Steering lock to at least 30.

 

[Andi Goodwin]

No Andi, if it were the other way up ie inverted then if you went to the graphic representation in game the steering would start from the outside, question do you have rFactor? if so are you using the Xui 1.8 interface instead of the ghastly stock offering. If you go to the steering control config area and hold say 90 degree steering input and vary the sensitivity and watch the steering input scale , As far as I am aware the scale is correct.

again i dont have it wrong you have it inverted ; variable direction ; from the centre of the wheel movement follows a linear and gradually becomes non linear creating greater movement at the extremes, 100% sensitivity gives greater movement at the centre (non linear)and returns to smaller movements at the extremes (linear) and this is clearly visible if you have the wheel visible in game or with xui ... this has been my point all along you have inversed what we have sought within the development of variable steering , that is precision in the centre and more movement /less precision near the extremes ...

your graph shows in red 0% and 100% linear following the same path for 90° while if you set them in game and look at the wheel movement they do not create the same reaction , so your graph is false as i does not even loosely represent any reality....

Andi

 

[Maurie King]

Andi please READ the post above, if you apply sensitivity at 100% you accelerate the movement from the mid point and it slows down at the extremities.
If you have 0% sensitivity then the reverse happens you need a greater turn around the centre for a given wheel deflection and this increases toward the end of the travel, at 50% this transition is relatively linear, and even at 50% I can alter the curve shape with a combination of sensitivity in the LGS and Lock in game.

In other words the entire steering range is used but with different acceleration rates to the curve the graph represents how the steering reacts with my settings compared to what should be linear 50% and is a true representation of how the input is interpreted , the red being how it feels at 0% it takes a long time to start to accellerate to full scale. The green is how it feels at 50% with a constant steady rise to full deflection.
The Blue how it feels at 100% coupled with my additions of low steering lock thus allowing fine control at centre and this accelerates the further you go even though the steering lock is low which is the principle of Variable steering rack.
DX Tweak shows the graph inverted. if that is where your basing your information from.

I may not be explaining myself or the way the settings work but the end result is they do and it has helped thousands that have been having major dramas with many sims NOT just RRE.

 

[RaceNut]

After further testing using Maurie's 100% steering sensitivity, I can confirm that it works as he says it should. There is a very fine - kind of micro steering sensation in the center and then the turn degrees ramp up quickly as you turn the wheel further - to a point where it slows again at the extremes. I find this to feel very natural as it is like speed-sensitive steering only more consistent and it allows excellent control at high speed but, also allows for very quick steering response if you need to make a correction when the tail steps out of line. I like it and it has helped me lower my lap times and save a few spins that I otherwise couldn't have recovered from as well.

 

[Andi Goodwin]

ok thanks ,im going to take the Quaker route on this one , using 100% linearity i dont get these results ; so i shall agree to disagree

Andi

 

[Maurie King]

this is a constant WIP trying to refine it constantly but yes , there is a global Profile this is the Base settings, then you create a specific profile for each Sim. these settings are internally derived from the global settings according to my research.
In your example above the RRRE Profile is 120% of 115% set in the global and the result is effectively 140% or so BUT you MUST place this into context!!
When applied to RRRE and it's internal 75% FFB (setting the FFB lower gives way better road feel etc at lower settings in Game ) you need to compensate forthe lack of FFB strength thus the profiler adds it's bit on.

 

[Maurie King]

ok thanks ,im going to take the Quaker route on this one , using 100% linearity i dont get these results ; so i shall agree to disagree

Andi

Thats fine Andi but remember there might be settings somewhere buried in your PC that are colouring the result and affecting the way your Game is interperiting the inputs.

If you set the LGS as I have laid out and edited the Axis's and so on and then set the same FFB settings I have in the RCS file ( I think they are all contained in there which is why I haven't posted them here yet) then it would seem that the LGS is not talking to RRRE on your PC as well as it should, I have no clue as to why this would be either sorry. Oh you MUST set 900 Degrees of Rotation within RRE as well.

As a side note I just experimented with the Saleen at the French track with 35% Steering Sens and 30 Steering Lock and this seemed to give a touch more feel with possibly a little oversteer exiting so I'll drop my Steering lock back a bit and test again.