PC1 Little review..

[Sun]

Hi guys has any of you played the latest build? If yes please tell me what you guys think of the game cause im not sure if i should buy it and become part of it, so yeah give us a little review of the handling, physics etc.
btw im a sim racer, i play LFS, Rfactor and GTR 2 I sure the physics of pCARS wont be as good as them but is it like SHIFT 2? cause that was bad lol is pCARS atleast drivable? i wanna hear from other sim racers!

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

To David:

Apples and oranges m8. You compare everything with a F3000 or GTR Evo in basically all our game forums on daily basis.

I am just saying you might have to broaden your view a bit and compare cars that are the same. A V8 Stock Car has a total different driving behaviour than a GT car in Evo for a reason: they are completely different cars.

GSC has spot on physics made by one of the best physics guys in the community. Why would Massa, Barrichello and a handful of V8 stock car drivers otherwise race it if it wasn't close to the real thing.

That you need a certain braking technique in Evo doesnt mean that the game is more realistic than others. Actually simracing brakingtechiques will kill you on a real life track with a real life car

 

[Christian Schegtel]

pCARS is definetely not a "grip fest"... Even if most cars are showing huge G loads, there are penalties for mistreating the throttle and the brake. Best times are achieved with nice and tidy lines and carefully modulating the pedals.

It is hardly a casual racer. Not at least if you're thinking of going fast.

Tyres behave entirely different on lap one than say in lap 10... Pressure and temps change the feel and the performance a lot. Alignment changes not so much, though. There's also wear implemented if you run full damage mode.

It has a few problems, nobody is going to deny that. But then, the good thing is everything is being constantly improved.

I really like GSC. Niels and the rest of the guys did a terrific job, IMO.

But to me at least, it's old since I've been playing rF since it got out. If someday they release a patch that takes me back to 2006 when it would have been a novelty, I'll give it another go

 

[Graham Byford]

GSC has spot on physics made by one of the best physics guys in the community. Why would Massa, Barrichello and a handful of V8 stock car drivers otherwise race it if it wasn't close to the real thing.

I have to agree, only just got into GSC and the physics are very very good as is the FFB, it's up there with the very best. The Gmotor2 engine maybe old but is well capable of accurate physics.

PCARS is nowhere near this level yet, and may well never be, the physics engine may not be able to deliver the goods. My biggest complaint with it at the moment is the lack of steering precision/directness and FFB, which will hopefully be improved after upcoming physics work has been done.

On the PCARS forum, the Gmotor2 engine gets a lot of stick and unfairly so, with the right expertise it can produce great results, far beyond where PCARS currently is, which is still an unknown entity.

 

[Peter]

In the early builds ( until build 073 ) it was easy to copie the gtr2 and race07 ffb values in ffb profile of pCars, I did this and it was better than GTR2.
I told them my experience and from build 073 on they changed and the profiles where different with bad FFB.
I told them that they maybe look in the wrong direction but the FFB is still no where near a sim. I lost my faith because there is no improvement only new cars and tracks.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

GSC has spot on physics made by one of the best physics guys in the community. Why would Massa, Barrichello and a handful of V8 stock car drivers otherwise race it if it wasn't close to the real thing.

I said...... but I actually don't know which is the most realistic,

I'm just trying to point out there are differences between these games, and that when I drove pcars, it was full bore into any corner with little concern for braking technique and even road position to some degree.

I consider GSC to be one of the best sims ever made.

 

[Lee Ross]

I have to agree, only just got into GSC and the physics are very very good as is the FFB, it's up there with the very best. The Gmotor2 engine maybe old but is well capable of accurate physics.

PCARS is nowhere near this level yet, and may well never be, the physics engine may not be able to deliver the goods. My biggest complaint with it at the moment is the lack of steering precision/directness and FFB, which will hopefully be improved after upcoming physics work has been done.

On the PCARS forum, the Gmotor2 engine gets a lot of stick and unfairly so, with the right expertise it can produce great results, far beyond where PCARS currently is, which is still an unknown entity.

I agree Graham. I know you and me have known each other a long time and have never really seen things eye to eye on alot of occasions with sims. In fact it was quite heated at times on some subjects but i totally agree with you there.

This is one guys opinion i respect and when/if he turns round maybe in the future and says it feels great i know it will actually feel great and be the sim that was promised. Right now it just is not and i have high doubts it ever will. Would be great to be proven wrong though as it's a beautiful game and is wasted with average physics and FFB

 

[Graham Byford]

I agree Graham. I know you and me have known each other a long time and have never really seen things eye to eye on alot of occasions with sims. In fact it was quite heated at times on some subjects but i totally agree with you there.

This is one guys opinion i respect and when/if he turns round maybe in the future and says it feels great i know it will actually feel great and be the sim that was promised. Right now it just is not and i have high doubts it ever will. Would be great to be proven wrong though as it's a beautiful game and is wasted with average physics and FFB

Lee, thanks for your post we may well have not seen eye to eye sometimes, and a difference of opinion is cool, but I think we still agree on most things in the simulation racing world, plus I still haven't forgotten us tearing around Sepang in those Meganes.

Despite my current doubts I'll be the first to admit if it changes for the better, and I really hope it does, there is quite a big change required though.

 

[Matthew Hardwick]

Maybe, but you must remember that I've been reacting to people claiming it's already a sim, and by my definition, that's not the case.

That's like saying Asseto Corsa isn't a sim, in the last preview I read the cars had no clutches because the clutch simulation wasn't done. "It's not a sim because it's not finished" is basically what you're saying.
You guys talk about it as if it's a finished game. It's a given that things aren't going to be ready.
I tried iRacing when it was new, don't tell me it's always been a sim if you refuse to call pCARS a sim. LOL at how the grass was like ice

 

[William Levesque]

What he means is regarding the whole feel of the cars, not the specific stuff...

 

[Matthew Hardwick]

I know. But the feel of the cars can't be expected to be perfect yet when they are still working on the new tyre model.
IMO some of them feel really good. Seen good comments about the Atoms from real life Atom owners on the WMD forum.
Others, like the Formula A, not so much... for now.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

That's like saying Asseto Corsa isn't a sim, in the last preview I read the cars had no clutches because the clutch simulation wasn't done. "It's not a sim because it's not finished" is basically what you're saying.

I can't be the only one who's read people at WMD saying it's a sim, plus go to youtube and suggest it isn't a sim and see the response.
You also mention iracing, assuming I endorse it, but I don't...I mean I could live* with the MX5's, but most of the other cars I tried sucked hard, and yes, even today there's bugger all grip off track.

* if other sims weren't an option to me.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

pcars b189 update.

1....6
2....7
3....6.75
----------
6.5

I did 25 or so laps and here are some thoughts....
Input lag seems to be gone mostly, and FFB doesn't seem to disappear as much.
I would say it's coming along nicely as a simcade, but it will still take a hell of a lot more to convince me this is a sim.

I should also point out that it'll take massive improvements to increase the existing scores.....consider that rf2 has a very detailed front end on some of the cars, yet pcars still feels gross and somewhat disconnected.

We still have the problem of the car feeling like it's chassis is one long rigid piece of metal, and when you steer sharply, the rear reacts like it's responding to the flex you input.

If someone's wondering what more I want....just make it feel more like GTR EVO's C6R or GSC 88 mac clone, and it'll be a lovefest.

http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/defining-a-pc-racing-simulator-sim-index.48105/

 

[Matthew Hardwick]

It's someone's wondering what more I want....just make it feel more like GTR EVO's C6R or GSC 88 mac clone, and I'll be a lovefest.

Err I hated that Vette. Was more a fan of the Aston Martin GT1, now that had superb handling.

Although you have a point there, Simbin sure did some great handling for their GT and WTCC cars. Race 07 was the first sim I took seriously and had good fun with it
What's amazing is they pulled off that handling on the old ISI (rFactor) physics engine. None of these fancy brush tyre models or anything.
That's why I'm looking forward to GTR 3.

As for going to Youtube or any fan forum of any sim and telling people it's not a sim... don't think that ever goes down well. I would do that if I wanted to troll, but that isn't my thing
None of the sims quite nail it really. NetKar seems to be the best for handling but even that can't be perfect if they're doing a new physics engine for Asseto Corsa.

Funny you mention the iRacing MX5s. I'e seen real MX5 owners slam the handling for the iRacing car, saying it's so much more unstable than the real thing.
Makes me wonder if any sims are any good :eek:

 

[David Ignjatovic]

What's amazing is they pulled off that handling on the old ISI (rFactor) physics engine. None of these fancy brush tyre models or anything.

I think it's the case that the older ISI engines have been virtually maxed out, and clearly, dev's are still coming to terms with newer engines, otherwise Shift2 would've corrected the problems of Shift1, and we'd have a very convincing car/s in pcars.
One of the things I like about some of RACEON's US Muscle cars is the amount of car behaviour they exhibit, and how controller-able they are via gas and steering.....now I never said I'm convinced everything about them is %100 realistic, but it terms of steering control/precision, it's downright epic.

As for iracing etc, I'm not 1000% concerned with the driving model only, as much as I want the sim index to be high, ie, strong scores on driving model, steering and FFB.....for example, let's say that 50 of the worlds best racing drivers said FVA was the most realistic driving model....would it matter if it had ordinary steering and FFB???, admittedly, it's hard to separate these categories from each other, but to me, the best sim is the one with the best sim index score......but of course, there's also the game play, so FVA sux in that regard, especially compared to something like simbin with GT5 amounts of cars and tracks+epic replay system etc.

 

[Super Koala]

I think the cars are great, I just can't drive them very well. I don't know what the real cars feel like, but these are quite challenging enough even at pre-alpha. Just waiting for track ir and graphics frame rate improvements.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I think the cars are great, I just can't drive them very well. I don't know what the real cars feel like, but these are quite challenging enough even at pre-alpha. Just waiting for track ir and graphics frame rate improvements.

Well my friend pcars is much easier to drive than most of the sims I own, but nowhere as detailed, and it's that level of feedback that allows one to go fast on a consistent basis in sims, ie, you can feel virtually everything the cars doing.
pcars feels both spongy and rigid at load points, and lacks the amount of fidelity that the best sims have.

 

[Rob Every]

Same old people, same old waffle eh!

I think as a veteran of 10 or so years now the only sims I havent been happy with are Pcars and GPL. GPL is definately an acquired taste. You have to drive a certain way and the basic game from back then doesnt really supportmodern wheels and styles of play. You can get the various plugins if you want to but to be honest I have otehr game to play so cant criticise the game too much as the version I can critique is very old and past it!

PCARS is different, it's very detailed in places. The menu system is good, if a little confusing in places and the whole game has the feel of something finished but not quite!

The cars and scenery look lovely, always have. But the game plays like you should be using a gamepad. Its better than it was but you certainly have less idea you are responsible for a line and a style than in other games.

I racing for me kicks them both into touch, it is immersive, simulatory and easy to play and use. I only played it for a month for free last year, but to be honest I couldnt put it down. I would get in from work and go to bed with arm pump! Thats how good it was.

A few cars were poor, particularly the Spec racer andf the Pontiac. But the rest were hard to drive on the edge, yet rewarded the time and effort you would put in to learn how to drive them. I was good on both ovals and roads, winning a few races, and found the whole experience good fun and actually a little like racing, in that you booked in, qualified and raced, that is proper simulation as it's excatly what you would do for real.

Simply put, if I had the spare money I would play IR. I am waiting for the final version fo RF2 as the current version seems very patchy with superb touches. PCARS I can take or leave and simraceway I love coz its free and I am good at it! lol

 

[David Ignjatovic]

A few cars were poor, particularly the Spec racer andf the Pontiac. l

I find it amazing those pieces of junk are in the basic package.....they're one of the things that puts me off about iracing, as I fear other paid cars might be the same.

 

[Marian Zelenka]

That you need a certain braking technique in Evo doesnt mean that the game is more realistic than others. Actually simracing brakingtechiques will kill you on a real life track with a real life car

And how would you define simracing braking technique? I'm curious. But I understand that there is a huge difference between a brake pedal with potentiometer and load cell.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

b207.

I put the Audi DTM into the t10 at Imola, p9 to be precise....I also noticed that p1 was 8tenths faster than p2, which seems odd, but you never know.
I felt the Audi was one of the better cars in b189, so I tried to see what I could do at Imola, and whilst my time seems okay, the car is still a fair way from where it needs to be....I was using default set which is miles better than it was months ago{FFB etc}

I tried to drive the 1990 stock car at Imola, but that thing feels like it's 2400kg, so I'll have to work on set up for it, but the cars still feel lightweight to me in the sim stakes.

As I said before, just a few yrs ago, I was driving Toca3 with a KB, so from that to this with a G27 is night and day, as such, with the quality of the GFX, this certainly deserves to sell well as a racing game, but I'm far from convinced this will be a sim....I mean, there's a lot there atm in terms of car behaviour, but it just doesn't go far enough.

When I first drove Game Stock Car, I was doing quite a few laps, but it didn't take me long to do my personal best times because of the sync of physics and FFB, ie, it was strong and precise, so you could quickly find your limit, and the 88 mac down the main straight at Interlagos kicked like a mule under brakes....but pcars kicks like a puppy dog.

That said, this drives very well as a simcade, so if you're into driving games, buy in, and from now on, once you've dled a build, you only have to patch it each successive time, so no 3gig dls every week-month anymore.

EDIT....actually, I'm not certain the patching policy applies to jr builds, maybe it's everything above.