PC1 Latest Build testing.

[Andy_J]

As you all know, Ian gave me a free pass to test the latest builds and that's what I have been doing for the last week. I will report here as and when I see fit to tell all about my findings.

But I will say that the latest build (296) is quite good. Now lets make some sense of my statement. I used a Lotus 98T in helmet cam using my antique MOMO red wheel and I can honestly report it is coming along much better than I anticipated. The actual feel and immersion is damn fine at this point. The handling is strange at first compared to say...RF2 and FVA, but it grows on you within minutes. At this point in time, this actual car feels good. I like it and I love the Milan circuit. The damage model has come on leaps and bounds.

I am doing some more testing all of next week using a G27 and I will also test some of the other cars that don't interest me as much (I am a F1 nut) and see how the feel in comparison to Shift 2, because that is what I was initially comparing PCars to.

I would like the replay function to have a directors mode though. Something that jumps from action to action and from car to car.

Aside from that, the replay's do crash my PC quite often but I understand that is being looked at.

Watch this space.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Depends on your definition of "right". Many people hated rF1's FFB which lead to the plugins of Leo and RealFeel. Personally, I preferred rF1's FFB (with some ini tweaks) over the plugins but I wouldn't call what I preferred over what others preferred "right". A lot people thought iRacing's FFB was phenomenal when it debuted.. I thought it was no better (and no worse) than rF1's.

FFB is subjective to the individual. Some people like and desire only "rack based" forces, and some want more canned forces. There is no definitive right or wrong, the idea is to expose options for users to have their own personal "right".

If everythings subjective, then my views are part of the plot whether you agree with them or not.
As I ALWAYS mention, the real PC sims are the benchmark for tight, responsive, heavy if needed ffb, but all other games are either simcade or have bypassed the ffb motor of a G27.

 

[Kyle Pearson]

If everythings subjective, then my views are part of the plot whether you agree with them or not.
As I ALWAYS mention, the real PC sims are the benchmark for tight, responsive, heavy if needed ffb, but all other games are either simcade or have bypassed the ffb motor of a G27.

David, you are trying to be combative when I'm not saying you are wrong at all. Maybe it's because English is not your native language so the interpretation of the words is different, or maybe you just enjoy starting/continuing internet fights.

Regardless, I cannot possibly understand what your experience is like today with Project CARS (nor any other racing title). My experience seems much different with my G25. Now, that's not to say we are having "different" experiences given the G25 and G27 are similar (but not the same). It could be that what I like, you don't and what you like, I don't. There isn't a right or wrong in that scenario.

Basically what I'm suggesting is that instead of saying something is "right or wrong", just simply say "you" don't like it. That is more accurate.

I will say that in my case I am using a brand new G25. I had purchased two of them when they were released many years ago (as the original reports of reliability were bad and I didn't want to have to wait for a replacement if I had an issue). My original one started having problems last year and I switched it out. I will say that granted the FFB in Project CARS also changed during this time, the FFB is still quite sharper with the new wheel. I do believe there were some sensations that were just not coming through on my older worn out G25 (I did try to update it before replacing it but that turned into a nightmare).

Anyway, hopefully there is a solution which helps you as there is so much this title will offer sim drivers.

 

[SnappyDEe]

Funny how all real pc sims generally get it right.

"Right" for you may not be "right" for me and vice/versa. That's what I was getting at. Also, I like how your comment contradicts itself when you write that other "real pc sims generally get it right". Do you have access to pCars?

 

[David Ignjatovic]

"Right" for you may not be "right" for me and vice/versa. That's what I was getting at. Also, I like how your comment contradicts itself when you write that other "real pc sims generally get it right". Do you have access to pCars?

LOL, I didn't contradict myself, I simply choose not to lie or exaggerate about other sims as some sim cars in some games feel wrong/under-developed, but a few bad apples can't spoil an otherwise precise package.

Btw, lightweight, disconnected pissy ffb is never right for me, same with all hit and miss simcade games.

 

[SnappyDEe]

"Btw, lightweight, disconnected pissy ffb is never right for me, same with all hit and miss simcade games."

This description right here makes no sense to me. I've never experienced FFB like that from PCars. Might be time to replace your wheel.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

"Btw, lightweight, disconnected pissy ffb is never right for me, same with all hit and miss simcade games."

This description right here makes no sense to me. I've never experienced FFB like that from PCars. Might be time to replace your wheel.

Of course mr investor, I'll replace it despite it's effectiveness in other games{excluding yours, lol}

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I had to drastically increase a deadzone slider to remove the horrible deadzones, but even still, I don't consider the physics as sim, really just more simcade.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Thx Kjelly, Snappe can be a nuisance at times.

 

[Andrej Svajger]

I had to drastically increase a deadzone slider to remove the horrible deadzones, but even still, I don't consider the physics as sim, really just more simcade.

David,
just set the TireForce and Master scale to 100, maybe set Fx,y,z scales to something different than 100 and put Fx,y,z smoothing to 100 and report back. If you'll still think FFB is lightweight and disconnected, i'm very sorry, for me it's getting better daily.

 

[William Wester]

pCARS FFB feels great with my Thrustmaster TX, even with the default settings.

 

[bmanic]

I had to drastically increase a deadzone slider to remove the horrible deadzones, but even still, I don't consider the physics as sim, really just more simcade.

We get it.. you don't like it. Now go waste your time complaining about something else.

.. wait, weren't you one of those guys who got kicked from WMD forums and refunded? Like a long time ago. You still bitter about that?

 

[bmanic]

David,
just set the TireForce and Master scale to 100, maybe set Fx,y,z scales to something different than 100 and put Fx,y,z smoothing to 100 and report back. If you'll still think FFB is lightweight and disconnected, i'm very sorry, for me it's getting better daily.

Guys.. you are giving very weird advice here. You really don't seem to understand how the game works.

It's not simple but this is how to get a "heavier" wheel if that's your issue. The key is the Relative Gain values. Unless you have a direct drive wheel, use Relative Gain!

Btw. the FFB has not changed since almost a year. It is the same straight from physics FFB that has been there forever. The built in parameters for these have not changed either since a long time so any changes you "feel" are due to physics or mainly car setup tweaks.

The most important parameter to check that it's set to 100 is the Force Feedback Strength parameter in the main controller menu. It defaults for many wheels at 75 and some wheels at 50 which is completely wrong. Then make sure FFB damping saturation (the next parameter under FFB strength) is set to zero.

After this I suggest using Real Gain parameter (first value to 0.98, second to 0.1 and last value again t 0.98) unless you have a direct drive wheel (2000$+ wheel).. or even the Fanatec CSW v2.

Then finally remove all smoothing in the car setup FFB menu. All cars default to 0.1 Fx Smoothing which is stupid.

Then I suggest setting the values for most cars like this (note that his is very subjective though. You need to adapt the FFB to your own type of driving):

Fx = 48
Fy = 44
Fz = 54
Mz = 100

Then the top parameter (master scale) to your preferred setting. I usually have it at around 34 to 40, depending on how heavy FFB I want.

Finally one of the most important and one of the most difficult to understand and tweak parameters is called Spindle Arm Angle (or just spindle arm). You can ONLY find it in each car's setup screen when you are NOT in the actual practice/qualifying/race session. So from the main menu go into car setup editing and you will find it as the last value. Many cars have this setting quite nicely set but some cars have it completely wrong. This setting is key to getting a proper feel of the forces through the whole range of slip angles. If you set the value too low you'll have a very tightly centered wheel with little FFB once you cross over optimum slip angle. If you set the value too high the opposite happens.. the wheel is very light and "slow" in the middle and gets progressively stronger the more you turn the wheel. Set it just right and your wheel will be giving you amazing detail.

EDIT: One last note: My way of tweaking FFB is purely based on laptimes. I tweak until I get the ultimate consistent laptimes. I don't care at all about trying to get a wheel to feel "realistic" (which would be completely dead in a normal car) nor do I try to get it "heavy and bumpy". I just tweak it for ultimate important physics information fidelity. I want to know exactly when I'm not at optimum grip levels. This is the only fairly OBJECTIVE way of tweaking FFB because I can directly measure it. I drive 5 laps around Silverstone with default FFB. Check my laptimes. I then tweak the FFB and drive 5 more laps then compare the laptimes. Did I do better? Did I do worse? It's like tweaking a car setup.

FFB can have a HUGE impact on your laptimes, especially if it is "wrongly set". It can truly work against you and make the car feel very odd if it's badly setup. But get it just right and you can vastly improve the laptimes and as an added bonus you wont be spinning and crashing as often either.

 

[Tomaz Selcan]

Today at 22:00 CEST i will stream pCars, trying different cars, races...if anyone want to join

 

[Andrej Svajger]

Guys.. you are giving very weird advice here. You really don't seem to understand how the game works.

I just gave an example to check lightweightness of the wheel which David obviously never tried. But if you want to get the most out of it, sure you have to set it up step by step and there's no "one fits all" setting. I have your WMD posts marked, don't worry. And yes, i'm far from understanding how the game works. But small steps lead me towards getting there, that's why it's getting better daily.
And if i have enough time (last two weeks almost no time ), it's getting better twice daily.

 

[Andy_J]

Well I did some long awaited testing with this game today and I must say, with the FFB tips given and the final polishing WMD/SMS have done, it's a cracker at least for offline play. I did some testing at 2 tracks where I regularly do bike track days (but Cadders is my no.1) and I love it.
Cadwell is very well done and is the best representative British track in my opinion. It is fantastic.

The AI races great, they make mistakes and they do actually race you.
The FFB once tweaked is actually very good, but not on a par with GSCE in my subjective opinion.

The handling can be also very good when set on prefessional and the Ginetta was a handful for me on Cadwell and Brands, but I loved it.

I love the weather and its constant changing. I love the dirt build up. And I love helmet view as I think that adds immersion greatly for gaming.

Well done SMS/WMD. It is very good. We will have to judge the multiplayer aspect of it when Racedepartment start doing club races though.

 

[Andrej Svajger]

Andy, that was a long wait but well worth it. With yesterday's final update, it's 99% D1 version. Hope to see you in MP events (both AC and pCars) soon.

 

[Andy_J]

Just to add, a quick question but when spectating, if I press the "hide interface" button the view switches to my cars cockpit. I would rather carry on watching the action. Anyone else getting this?

 

[Scott Coffey]

^^
Recently reported bug. Hopefully will be fixed in D1 patch.

 

[Andy_J]

Andy, that was a long wait but well worth it. With yesterday's final update, it's 99% D1 version. Hope to see you in MP events (both AC and pCars) soon.

As soon as they start doing club races here with Pcars you will see me. I am going back to AC a bit more for MP. CYA on track Andrej.