Lappign cars

[Nicolai Nicholson]

I think the safest guideline to this should be:

-Faster car must first catch up with the guy ahead and then expect to be allowed to make an uncontested passing move at next chance.
-All the slower car needs to do is to leave plenty of room on the inside at next safe turn after the fast dude have caught up.

This way we will avoid unexpected behavior (who shall move off the racing line etc), and we also avoid cars slowing down way below race pace (which can be dangerous). In addition I think this is what will make the sum of time loss for the two cars a minimum.

Do people agree with this, or would you change some details, or do you think I am way off? Voice your opinion so that we can all agree on how this sould be done.

 

[Andy Paries]

Sounds about right to me.

 

[Peter Marshall]

I agree.
However, as a comment. doesn't everyone do their best everytime already? I read many many race reports where Reik will make a comment regarding drivers losing too much time when he laps them. I am never certain which one of us he is referring too. Is it me? I have a habit of moving off the race line after a slowish corner and delaying when I go to full throttle. I think I am doing the right thing, but....

Anyway, seeing blue flags means there is a race going on and I am not in it.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

There are a few guys who have not commented on this, either through a post or through "a like". I think it would be a good idea if all agree on this well in time for Wednesday's race.

I am missing
Bob Lu
David McC
David T
Eliezer
Gaetano
Helder
Tim
(Jim)
(Nicolas )

(Nicolas cannot make the next race, and I think Jim as well is in a tricky situation for that race if I am not mistaken?)

 

[Jonas Lex]

Right now it looks like I wont be able to make it for the racedate unfortunately

Im afraid I wont be able to make it for this race either since I have some serious studying to do that evening, I really would have loved to drive my home grand prix but that has priority

 

[David Turnbull]

i agree

 

[Jim Hawley]

I'm here!

I think it's true that often the guy being lapped does loose a little too much time, but I think we have always said it's up to the guy being lapped to decide when, where and how it happens, am I right?

I've done my far share of both lapping and being lapped (more often the latter)

When I'm looking to lap someone first of all I try to get close enough to trigger the blue flags, but not so close that I might frighten the guy off the road or run into him if I take my eye off the ball, then I wait until he makes an obvious move, it could be a lift on the straight or a wide and slow corner entry, I don't mind as long as it's a clear signal

If I'm being lapped it's the same in reverse, I hope the guy behind will be a little patient and I'll make it easy for him, I have to say though I do prefer the wide corner entry option as it costs me less time, I also like to wait until he's quite close, for the same reason, but it rather deppends upon where on the circuit I get caught, if I have to lift on the straight and loose some time then so be it.


Jim

 

[Bob Laube]

i agree

 

[Peter Marshall]

I think it's true that often the guy being lapped does loose a little too much time, but I think we have always said it's up to the guy being lapped to decide when, where and how it happens, am I right?

+1 I would like to know if you are right too. I do my best...

I recall the last Abu Dhabi race where I lost position to Gaetano who was being chased by two cars looking to lap him, or was Gaetano unlapping himself. Either way I moved out of the way when I saw Blue flags, lost lots of time and "gave away" a position. Such is life.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

@ Jim and Peter

It is true that this has always been the case on paper, but not out on the track. In reality there is a difference in drivers interpetation of this rule. Many times I have seen fast drivers be slightly unhappy about being held up by slower cars, and many times I see the slower cars move out of the way long before they have to.

But this is not about the lapped cars losing time, it is about dangerous situations being created (David vs. Vale and Nicolas vs. Anthony).

At Silverstone we had two potentially race ending incidents, both happened when one car is lapping the other, and both could have been avoided if we had been clearer on what should be done in these situations.

There are two things that can be dangerous:
1: A sudden and unexpected drop in pace
2: Unexpectedly moving off the racing line

What I am trying to do is to minimise these risk by asking lapped car to not do any of the above and for the fast cars to be super-patient.

Obviously we can analyse the unique sitiation we are in and do what we deem are safest and best without being bound by what I wrote in the top post, as long as there is no incident.

 

[Peter Marshall]

Cool. I rarely leave the track boundarys to allow cars past. Abu Dhabi being an exception when an incident ahead of me and with Reik closing quickly [as always ]; I got outta-the way!

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

I do agree, the lappers need to be patient. In the previous leagues the quickest drivers didn't really have any so i've used to letting them past way before i'm suppose to.. But i would be more happy if i don't have to drive out of the circuit at the very first wave of blue flag.. It's just a habit as in previous leagues i've received unbelievable complaints when i'm racing for position and let the second flag waved, almost demanding a penalty for it. It's good to know that this is not one of those, you just have to trust me, i know where to let you past so that either of us will lose a lot of time..

In Silverstone i spun three times when letting people past out of four spins total.. I was very scared everytime i got blue flags. I decided to go off track and possibly ending my race rather than causing any timeloss to any of the frontrunners. In Germany i'll let you past either at the corner entry or in the straights, i'll decide when and where, it's the safe way.

 

[Tim McIver]

I'm here too!

I should start with confessions. I have certainly been guilty of not having quite enough patients as I have lapped people in the past. I've also been mixed up in a couple of complicated races where I found myself out of position and attempting to unlap (but I think this thread doesn't need any unlapping talk!). I've also been one who has complained in the past about not being allowed to lap in reasonable time.

This has happened at different extremes. There have been occasions where I have followed a much slower driver for 2 or 3 laps and others where I have followed very slightly (and likely out of position driver) for 2 or 3 laps. I'm sure everyone agrees that whilst the faster drivers must be patient and be prepared to lose some time, 2 or 3 laps is not what we're talking about.

Please note, I think the vast majority of the drivers do very well almost all the time. When I have had trouble, one driver suggested that I wasn't close enough for him to back off. The trouble was, I wasn't prepared to get too close for fear of him backing off!

The second situation that comes up is when at the end of the race, the driver to be lapped decides that their race is in a more critical phase and elects not to let the faster car through. I'm of the opinion that that's not a call for the slower driver to make. Last race Gaetano new I had a good gap back to 3rd (totally true) but it wasn't 3rd I was worried about. Sean in 1st had clearly been managing the gap back to me and did have me covered, but I certainly wanted to apply some pressure for those last three laps. Gaetano decided I didn't need too.

In terms of safetly, I completely agree with Nico that danger comes from unpredictability. Lifting at an unexpected moment, turning in at an unexpected moment, that's what I'm scared of, it's also the reason that the faster driver may hang back a little. This does mean that people cant wait for the faster car to be on their gearbox before they give way.

The racing in the top 10 is closer than its ever been, we do need to keep walking the speed/patience tightrope.

I'm enjoying the racing very much. Thanks all.

Tim.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

Okilidokili... so that means that everybody have read, understood and agreed with this with the exception of:
a) Helder and Nicolas, but Nicolas is not racing at Nurburgring, and I am guessing that Helder is out of the league.
b) David McCradic,
c) Gaetano and Eliezer, but these guys never cause any problems, so that sould not be a problem... (sarcasm)

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

If only real F1 would have the drivers association running things... I like this "Drivers Agreement" style of organizing,

 

[Nicolas Rouge]

I've read all this and am 100% agree with what has been said. My lapping incident with Anthony at Silverstone is a good example of what can happen when you don't take your time to lap cleanly someone.