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Kunos, we can't go on like this...

Discussion in 'netKar PRO' started by Paul Hamwa, May 5, 2011.

  1. With the events of the last few weeks in the club races, I would like to talk a little about the frustrations of this game.

    First of all I have a great time racing NKP and I love it for it's ffb and tyre model, but the rest of the baggage that comes with it is starting to wear on me. The netcode is nowhere near what it should be and although I don't blame the developers as I can only imagine what must go into creating a working game, I feel the core fans are being let down. Practically every single argument and fight I've seen in Netkar has involved either the game crashing or bad collision code. This can't go on, at least not for me. We've succeed in making Netkar fun here at RD with a convivial atmosphere, first and foremost thanks to Bjorn who brought us all here to Netkar, and then I and other members have tried to contribute to getting new drivers. The NKP club here at RD has been one of fun and camaraderie, and that is why we deserve more.

    I'm hoping an update is imminent and I can throw this post away and we can get on with racing.

    Please fix this game once and for all.

    thank you

    Paul
     
  2. I can understand your frustration mate but unfortunately nK give a lot of fun but asks a lot of patience about its issue in particular for faster car like KS2, but in my opinion the "fee" to pay is not so high

    anyway all nK community agree with your above :thumb:
     
  3. We must be the most stubborn supporters of a simulator, in any other one it would been already abandoned by all, but this one has such great potential that would be a shame if it not survive.

    We have suffered so many setbacks, netcode and collisions troubles, lack of participants, has not been an easy task, but speaking for myself, I just feel right driving this simulator cars, so my only option is to move forward.
     
  4. Bram

    Bram
    Roaring Pipes Maniacs | #27 Staff Premium Member

    The game itself is bloody awesome. Great physics, simple layout and for the price Kunos offers NKP it's still a bargain.

    However the netcode is now slowly killing the game experience for everybody. I remember in a previous patch the netcode was spot on and online racing was without glitches. However during a next patch it seems that something was broken again and never to be fixed afterwards.

    I hope Kunos takes notice of this thread and the concern of their community members outside of Italy as it would be a shame if we have to pull this game only because of the crappy netcode!
     
  5. The thing is and what worries me is that new drivers come in and right away love the physics but then get slapped in the face with all it's "quirks". On top of that there are so many games out now, most of which have better netcode and can be raced on grids of over 15. I'm getting to the point where the physics don't mean thaaaat much to me if it stops me from enjoying myself. I'm not trying to bash the devs over the head, I just want them to know we are waiting and patience is running out. I don't have an endless amount of time to race, as we all don't, so I consider all your guys time and my own to be precious. And when a game is riddled with problems frankly I don't see myself continuing to support it for infinity.

    Thanks for all your comments so far.
     
  6. Abdul Al-Amry

    Abdul Al-Amry
    2011 RD Indy 500 Winner

    @RaceDepartment NkP is a great sim. Only grip I have, has always been the netcode. I've stopped racing online until its resolved.
     
  7. Well i'm totally agree with Paul,i hope that the next patch (that will 'soon' realsed) will solve some bugs...about the netcode...the situation will not change soon.
    The game is based on an old core that cant be improved easly,i can only say thanks to kunos for his work (dont forget the price 15 euro now) but i think that he would work on netcode before relase new cars.
    Netcode it's the base for the online gaming experience, watch rfactor or simbin game..
     
  8. I still firmly think NKP is the best sim for physics/tire and FFB. Its potential is enourmous and it has for me, unquestionably the best 'connection' to the car. I hope to have some more NKP club races soon, the guys in the club are great and it has a brilliant feel to it.
    I trully hope that the netcode issues are solved sooner than later as this is what holds NKP back from being a real success :(

    I for one tho will continue to 'suffer' the ills and support Kuno's becuase for the money, its one hell of a sim :)

    See you guys on track soon, I need my fix :p
     
  9. In the meantime, I guess we'll have to race with the F1600/1800 and Vintage more. *wink wink nudge nudge* :tongue:
     
  10. Yeah I agree with the fact that it's a small price 15 euros, but what good does that do us when the game is not working right on a very basic level?
    Having to let down 14 people that have come to race and have practiced for few days before, is not so nice.

    That said I'm not giving up, but I thought we needed a place to express how disappointed we are with some very important aspects of this game. Kunos are a small company, and I don't take it lightly to criticize them. I really enjoy the variety in sim racing right now because of small games companies, but we have to be able to voice our frustrations so that they see what this means to us.
     
  11. Andrew Scott

    Andrew Scott
    Premium Member

    Hi all, its me, the "old man" who wins races as soon as they start, hehehe......

    First up, Paul, Thanks for this thread heres hopeing it doesnt need to be here long eh!!

    Okay, while I agree with whats been said so far, I think we need a little perspective here!

    Okay, in the past 3 weeks there's not been alot of fun for everyone attending the club events, on that we all agree.
    But lets be honest, the particular problem we've had has not occured in the NGP server events, so its not a common server problem, not to my knowledge anyway, and correct me if Im wrong? :)
    But I feel its not just coincidence that I start joining the events and this bug rears its head, the fact that the server doesnt reset my practice time on moving to qualify is suspect, but for the server to declare me race winner as soon as the race starts, is just not on.... Im just soooooo fast!!! lol.
    Dont get me wrong Ide love to win a race or two, but I want to do it properly eh!! with speed and skill :)

    Anyway, this problem/bug is within my game/PC somewhere, of that Im sure and we've already established that this particular bug doesnt occur unless Im online. During the week I changed a few things on my PC in an attempt to resolve the bug, and Paul and I tested the server prior to the event Wednesday and everything seemed okay, obviously we were wrong, my sincere apologise guys!. Also I feel its only fair to the other members that I refrain from joining any more races till I solve this bug.
    Hopefully this weeks club races should be able to get back to being the fun events they are and lower everyones levels of frustration.
    Sure theres other issues with nKP code that frustrate us, but we've kinda gotten used to them and we still enjoy the racing, which just makes us all better drivers IMO, and as we all know Kunos is working on fixes and improvements as we speak that will make the game immersion for us even deeper.
    I for one will not walk away from nKP just because of some minor bugs, nKP has to much to offer me, the realistic way the car behaves, the immersion level, the FFB through the G25, all these things and more are unmatched for me in 15 years of PC simracing, I enjoy Nkp the most and Ive only owned it for a little more than a year, but in this short year Ive seen Kunos release 3 new cars, the awesomeness in the rain code and new tracks and other little tweaks in v1.3beta1 made it even better, and then theres the mass of addon tracks by the community (shame some arent usable online).
    IMHO I think the game has moved forward substantially in the last year, but like everyone else Iam looking forward to the new updates Kunos is currently working on, sure its hard to be patient when theres all these issues with the netcode, but I consider it this way, if its worth having, its worth waiting for, and remember their a small dev outfit trying to keep a massive community happy and besides new code would take time to develop properly, we dont wont more bugs now, do we!!!

    Cheers N Thanks.
     
  12. I agree with most of what you say Andrew. But I disagree that these are minor bugs. They are major bugs that can ruin entire races, and more importantly cause needless conflict between drivers. This recent timing bug we've had is not the first and only problem Netkar has, if it were we wouldn't even be having this thread right now.

    I said as well I don't take it lightly to criticize a small company, but even a small company needs input form it's community especially if it wants to survive in this very competitive markeplace. I've had loads of patience and NKP fans are some of the most forgiving simracers I've met, but even we have a limit. Kunos I'm sure has it's priorities, but we need to be vocal so that some of these very major bugs are resolved.
     
  13. I agree with most of what people have already mentioned. If I only play nK for a week, I adjust to the netcode and tend to leave that extra space between myself and other drivers. If I play other sims (where you can rub bumpers without one of you exploding off the track), and then return to nK, I find it very difficult to settle in. I find the gap I have to leave between myself and others varies depending on peoples connection speed, so you can never be sure how close you can get.

    The problem I have with nK is that, unless I'm mistaken, it is meant to be played online against other humans. That means that it is fundamentally flawed because the netcode should be the 1st thing that must be right. If nobody can race online properly then eventually everyone will stop playing.

    I really like nK, and really hope the netcode issue is at the top of the "fix" list.
     
  14. What;s going on with the update? everything is so quite, no news, no info, nothing, at least tell us if it's WIP so we can know we have something to wait for..
     
  15. Time passed...
    I think now he will wait rfactor 2 and iracing 2 and suppose if he thinks like that he will release it after 4-5 months from rfactor and iracing releases...as time passes i think he loses..he should release it as soon as possible so people stick to nkpro..Im not saying that they will stay if rfactor or iracing comes out but after them i dont think people will come back...And i believe that,ONLY if lets say rfactor (thats doesnt make u pay every month) has a lot better physics than rfactor 1 and better ffb,feeling,tyre model....If these are true as they saying i dont suppose people come back...
     
  16. I agree with Vaggelis, now is a key moment to get more people to NetKar, if we don't get a final NK version with better collision model and RF2 comes out and is good, I fear that most people who still are around will go to RF2.

    After that will be hard to save this great simulator.
     
  17. This would be a great shame..... Kuno's is a small fish in a big pond tho guys, its never going to be easy for them to rush updates through. We must be patient, even though its hard :)
     
  18. Well i know i have said the same thing many times and times again but If Kunos takes note....really hire some extra help even temporarily to help you make a dozen normal cars.The base netcode is stuff only Kunos can sort out as it is his baby but for the extra stuff that takes a lot of time he could hire or ask for some help.
    Really for the moment through it is missing the huge amount of content rfactor has,netkar pro at least does some stuff very well like the handling,the audio,the ff and at least it has a few online races here and there.Ohh and some nice weather effects.If the online code is sorted and improved and a nice selection of normal cars is added there would be enough new blood brought to netkar to keep the game alive and people interested on it for the next 2-3 years Stefano would need to make the netkar 2 engine.

    But if nothing is done i am very concerned that everybody would loose interest and migrate to rfactor 2 as it seems this time it is a very well programmed simulator with advance weather effects,some sweet graphics,good physics and handling and with enough high quality content from launch to have people playing online from the begining.
     
  19. I tend to think nKp was an educational experiment that yielded education to found a business of doing something else on. An experiment that succeeded on one hand to fund a start, yet presented problem where investing time finding solutions held no benefit educationally for the company, nor progressed it toward its present business goals. The only way to explain such short sightedness is to accept that perhaps its not short sighted at all. We perhaps are just not a priority to the success of Kunos. If we where, we would already have the netcode we need to build a community around. Perhaps our goals are not the same.

    I cannot explain any other way the years that have passed with no solution to the netcode problem. I only makes sense that nKp is not a focus for Kunos. I say this because, having netcode relegated to just one guy seems to be a strange problem to have over many years. The price being what it was lends to my theory. Also, the recent release of new cars and tracks may merely advancements learned from other programming efforts that where easily translated to the nKp sim.

    The reality may be that they don't want to be in this market at all. Given enough time either iRacing or Rfactor 2 or some other sim will make this a reality given time. I love nKp, but i loved them for the same selfish reasons i will leave them.... FEEL. If someone comes close... i will have a hard saying no.

    As for price... imagine that Kunos told us up front that, "Outcomes of minor collision or actions such as braking near or by other players can result in catastrophic results." Would you deem the product to be a SIM? As Kunos made no such confession to the realities we experience from the netcode, my expectation that nKp would behave as any other SIMULATION is not unwarranted even if i paid $1 for it. A real SIMULATION does not send a car off track when someone brakes near your rear bumper. Im pretty sure of that.

    Bottom line, Kunos has found time over the YEARS to upgrade many things, all but the one that would create roots strong enough to build a solid and lasting community around. Sure the new cars and tracks help garner new attention, yet without netcode the future is the same. People will find the nKp is still best suited to drive by yourself, if they just dont get angry an leave before that logic hits. I will continue to roll when I can, and do hot laps to learn, but the future of nKp is largely out of my hands. I cannot make people stay, nor create leagues for a sim racers that dont exist. Bottom line, if Kunos will not see this as important enough to fix, what other choice do I have but to agree. The results are all the same regardless of what I want. I just wish Kunos would come straight with their desires and intentions for nKp. So far what they have done speaks largly to a company that has no intention of providing a sim for use to build a community around. Perhaps our goals and their goals do not match. I welcome their argument against, but i doubt that will happen.
     
  20. http://www.radicalsonline.com/conte...peaks-about-his-life-simracing-and-netKar-PRO