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Isn't God technically at fault for creating Satan?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Mohamedou Ari, May 3, 2013.

  1. Mohamedou Ari

    Mohamedou Ari
    F1 Sim Racer & #1 St. Bernard Lover on RD Premium

    This is something that many followers of Christianity and Islam are in denial of.

    They say God created everything. So, he also created Satan.

    God knew Satan (or Shaitan in Islam) would betray him, lead humans astray, and be the epitome of all evil. Yet, God created him anyway.

    That's a God I want to worship. /sarcasm

    If God's creation are supposed to have no fault and God knew Satan was evil, then, why did God's creation go awry and why did he not do anything to stop Satan?

    I talked about this with my Shi'ite Islamic mom, and she's in denial of this.

    NOTE - For the mods sake, please keep this as civil as possible; no insults, no bashing on other peoples' beliefs, etc.
  2. Don't expect a civil argument about religion here Mohammed. Just don't... It won't happen...
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Omer Said

    Omer Said
    Weresloth Staff

    It is like critizing a teacher for putting questions on an exam paper.
  4. Sooo tempting :)
    • Like Like x 1
  5. I'm not bashing anyone's belief here, but the only proper answer to this thread is that God and Satan aren't real. I really dont know what else to say.
  6. This was one of the questions no Holy man could answer could answer to my satisfaction when I started doubting. There's betting contests between God and Satan in the Bible where God merely turns a blind eye to his people and lets Lucifer do as he pleases with his servants. For anyone keeping score I'm talking about the story of Job but depending on who you speak to that wasn't God's only deal with the devil. I believe one of the secrets of Fatima has to do with another wager between the two where God gives Satan 100 years at the helm of the church. Taking that perspective, letting people die from hunger/starvation, robbing and hiding wealth and knowledge from the masses locked up under Vatican city and the RAMPANT child abuse and cover up would make a tad more sense.
  7. Calum McLure

    Calum McLure
    Did ye, aye?


    It was going to go downhill eventually so I thought I'd get the ball rolling :sneaky:
    • Like Like x 3
  8. Why bother? If you have literally nothing to add why take your precious time to sink beneath yourself? You're the reason threads like this don't last long. We have a lot of smart people on these boards and a very competent MOD staff, we don't need you. We can debate civilly just fine without you.
  9. Calum McLure

    Calum McLure
    Did ye, aye?

    It was a joke, based on what usually happens in these threads, I didn't expect anyone to take it seriously.
  10. Someone starts a thread and the first 3 replies are zomg religion don't bother. What do you expect from a thread that's actively being derailed? What would happen if the folks who have no interest in civil debate kept their posts out and let the conversation continue? Maybe we'll get somewhere. I got the joke, I wasn't amused you were the third person to make it, and in the most distasteful manner.

    So instead of setting up for failure, contribute or GTFO. If you don't feel you can contribute in an intelligent manner don't bother posting and derailing.

    On topic: I'll play devil's advocate until a real Christian or faithful wants to weigh in. The subject at hand was: "is God responsive for the devil." in the plainest sense of the question I' say yes. God created the Angels, Lucifer among them, and loved with them in heaven. It was not until he created man and have him "free will" (debate all on its own) that Lucifer began to get jeleous and rebellious. Man was given free will (to do as God said) and Satan tricked(again subject to debate) Eve into eating the forbidden fruit and gaining knowledge. For his "unforgivable" sin of sharing knowledge with man they were cast out and lost their eternal life, as well as Lucifer cast put from heaven with all his angels.

    God created Lucifer and gave him wisdom and somewhat of a free will. Is God at fault for giving knowledge period? Where would the world be if it was a perfect choice less system?
  11. (imo) Religion is just Astronomy.

    Lucifer = "The morning star, the planet Venus"

    IS = Osiris the moon goddess. (could be Isis as well, forgot)
    RA = Ra the sun God.
    EL = Star of Saturn

    And the star on their flag.

    Jesus, 12 diciples = 12 months.
    3 wise men = Orion constellation
    Followed a star, probably North Star.

    Son of God = Sun of God.

    I don´t know just rambling i guess.
  12. I've heard that theory before Hampus and it does carry some weight but if you got the facts from Zeitgeist the parallels between the Egyptian astronomical religion and Christianity is exaggerated and in most cited examples have no basis in fact. Theres a film called Zeitgeist debunked that tackles the first half of the movie and actually offers a 1,000 reward for anyone who can find the origional texts that parallel all the past prophets to Christ. It's still unclaimed as the author based his claims on writings of others, who had no origional base in fact.

    That's not to say I don't believe the church was highly influenced by astronomy and old religions. I think Satan and Prometheus are similar interpretations of the same (base) idea, the want to provide man with knowledge, both being severely punished for it. Satan has a much longer narrative and complex character than Prometheus though, I sometimes think that the bible was written to demonize knowledge and free thought.
  13. What i said you can read about in Wikipedia, it has nothing to do with Zeitgeist.
    (the 12 diciples thing is my own take)
  14. Bram

    Ezekiel 25:17 Staff Premium

    Satan is the driving force behind any religion. The bad guy, everybody is afraid of, pushing the sheep towards the friendly almighty. Without such a character a god wouldn't survive long.

    Classic water / fire, earth / moon, light / dark story fairy
  15. Omer Said

    Omer Said
    Weresloth Staff

    Parallelity between the religions and old myths is very natural when you accept Adam-Eve as the first couple. God gave them more or less the same religion as Christianity, Islam etc... In time, this knowledge change and be modified. Tribes migrate to different places and in time their beliefs lose their pureness. Writing and documentation were not there, only oration of elders, seers etc... Even Islam (as one of the youngest religions/having a holy book, Quran written down from the beginning) and has some crazy sects with strange/extreme beliefs. People tend to degenerate.

    Some muslim scholars even say that Greek gods symbolize the 99 names of Allah, but in time these names were idolized and turned into different gods. Sounds very reasonable in my opinion.
  16. If you accept that you have to dis-regard evolution completely.
    If you accept it you run into a pretty obvious problem called incest as well.

    And let´s not think about the bible as "one" book as it is a collection of many books.
    Bible = "the books"
  17. Thats pretty interesting, I've never heard that before but it would make a lot of sense. If Allah is all things and he has 99 different names, if each name is for one of his particular characteristic, the myriad of greek gods are usually have some base on emotion or a particular characteristic of the culture, paralleling them to Allah would fit perfectly.

    Also the Hindu religion has multiple gods, some gods with multiple forms and combinations of gods, each usually having to do with a characteristic. Like Bram mentioned the theme of Duality recurrs in multitudes across the acnient world. The combination of Shiva and his consort Pravati yeilds Ardhanarishvara, a half man half woman. From wiki:
    "Ardhanarishvara represents the synthesis of masculine and feminine energies of the universe (Purusha and Prakriti) and illustrates how Shakti, the female principle of God, is inseparable from (or the same as, according to some interpretations) Shiva, the male principle of God. The union of these principles is exalted as the root of all creation. Another view is that Ardhanarishvara as a symbol of Shiva's all-pervasive nature."

    The main God in Christianity, Judaism and Islam is the same being, Islam and Christianity being "extensions" of Judiasim, why the holy books tell us to kill each other is the mystery. Were they written that way or has man's influence over the years corrupted and changed the translations and messages over time? I think the Bible was heavily distorted when it got put together, the ommision of "gnostic" texts from the dead sea scrolls i think is the biggest disservice to happen to the entire religion. Basically the folks in charge got to pick and chose the books and messages they felt to be most important, while branding anything outside their conventional train of thought as heresy.
  18. Yes.. that's because discussions like these are not worth anyone's time. There's never going to be a conclusive answer anyway.
  19. I think Red Dwarf got it right & it'll just be a matter of time before a 'missing' page of the bible is 'found'.....

    Personally, for fictitious 'higher-power' entities to believe in, I find the Discworld series & Viking mythologies much easier to wrap my head around!
    Oh, & as for above & Islam, I think you'll find the Greeks & their gods were around a lot longer before Mohammad ever put pen to paper....