DiRT Rally Is Dirt Rally close to RBR's physics/FFB now?
- Thread starter Mike85
- Start date
Tobbe Bergman
@Simberia
Tobbe Bergman
@Simberia
Exactly and anyone who tried driving a car fast on gravel knows what it is all about when you feel the grip disappears when you hit a certain speed
All arcade racers are saying that !
Mikaela needs to realize that many find RBR not only nothing like driving a car on gravel, but not very enjoyable either. Of course her opinion on what a sim is, is better than mine.
Andy_J
I hate Race cheats ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Whilst I agree that Mikaela's opinion is the only one that matters to her, I would agree that those who don't find RBR realistic or not enjoyable are probably just used to games that handle easy on the consoles and other various arcade games. They just haven't put the time in to learn how to drive a rally car sim or they are just rubbish or they just don't have the sim in the first place.
I enjoy RBR a lot, I also enjoy Dirt Rally a lot, but I still think RBR has the most realistic physics, better FFB and much better replay system. But that is my opinion chaps.
Which version of RBR? DR physics are better than RBR original physics imho. Both games have odd tarmac physics at the minute though.
Yes, comparing DR physics to the original RBR ones would make no sense to begin with, when most of the RBR fanboys like myself have moved on to things like NGP, Real Physics and maybe to plugins like RBR-World that bear little resemblance to what the original game felt like all those years ago.
But having said that, RBR is still the greatest game of all-time for a reason, it nailed so many departments that most of you don't even remember to give credit for. If someone in here or anywhere thinks that it'd be easy to top a 11-year old game, think again. So from this perspective, I consider the following points as key areas in which a lot - and quite possibly too much for the time available - needs to happen (besides all the tweaking) before we can truly speak about these two games in the same sentence.
1) Wet surface physics
- I'm not really a tarmac specialist by any means and it may have to be taken into consideration but I made a quick test on one of the Germany's "sprint" stages and I wasn't convinced that there was any wet physics in place whatsoever, or if there is, it's very subtle. I was only couple of seconds off the pace in the rain and that I believe was more down to worse visibility than anything else. In RBR you have a notable difference between dry and wet. But what I do know for certain is that the AI drivers are driving the same stage times on both dry and wet... How worrying is all this exactly, I'm not sure, the old CMR games could give some indication on what to think but I'm not reinstalling any of them just to check.
2) Damages
- In RBR you have a choice of "Safe", "Reduced" and "Realistic" damage modes and not only that, in Rally Season's Champion level your rally ends right there if you "collide with a bystander"... Heck, that was something truly special as a concept even if the organisers have a tendency to be in a wrong place and occasionally that feature may have left you only frustrated. So of course DR doesn't have to go that far to get points from me, but there's no question that the game needs that often suggested "hardcore mode". And I don't think they'd need to even tie any driving aids to the difficulty levels, only the damages, and I'd be happy. Simple as that. I know some people would like to force things such as cockpit views in online events and even though I would welcome it, I'm not really that passionate about it.
3) The tyre selection
- OK, this is admittedly a tough one for DR devs and I don't envy them. RBR had Dry, Intermediate and Wet tarmac/gravel tyres and one type of snow tyre, and probably as such oversimplified by today's standards, as there seem to be three different compounds for each type of tyre nowadays. But even so, without some sort of a rudimentary tyre selection in DR, you'll always have the right tyres on, never mind what the itinerary looks like. That sure doesn't sound good enough to me.
4) Service park
- This is probably the easiest thing to fix and that's good, because currently the feature is just useless, with the percentages and all. I end up using the crew recommendation every single time because the concept doesn't give me any satisfaction. So it needs to be overhauled in a BIG way. In fact, they should be stealing from... you guessed it, RBR. The damage levels in RBR for different parts were "light", "medium", "severe" and "lost"; and your job was to replace parts (the clock was running while you were making decisions, even), not fixing something like tyres from 91% to 95% like in DR. And right now in DR you're not free to customise when these services take place. Always after two stages. Hopefully customising the itinerary will not prove to be impossible feature toadd only because it could ruin the "clean" menu design...
5) "Modding support"
- CM should make modding possible in as many departments as possible. And I'm not referring to any official mod support like Steam Workshop, because who in the right mind would be interested in that? Steam Workshop only spells trouble and useless restrictions that could render the whole activity pointless. No, just let people open any encrypted packs (audio etc.) and edit what's inside of them. Sure, some areas could be closed for eternity (RBR was quite a closed one, to be fair) and track modding support is obviously one of those more complicated areas, but it would be incredible if Codemasters actually released a plugin for 3ds Max or Blender to make exporting to the Dirt format possible. It's not like they'd have to share ALL of their plugins/tools and secrets for stage creation. From what I've read, apparently they don't use/have any track editors of their own, it's only 3ds max from start to finish, so who knows? Maybe it can be done.
But having said that, RBR is still the greatest game of all-time for a reason, it nailed so many departments that most of you don't even remember to give credit for. If someone in here or anywhere thinks that it'd be easy to top a 11-year old game, think again. So from this perspective, I consider the following points as key areas in which a lot - and quite possibly too much for the time available - needs to happen (besides all the tweaking) before we can truly speak about these two games in the same sentence.
1) Wet surface physics
- I'm not really a tarmac specialist by any means and it may have to be taken into consideration but I made a quick test on one of the Germany's "sprint" stages and I wasn't convinced that there was any wet physics in place whatsoever, or if there is, it's very subtle. I was only couple of seconds off the pace in the rain and that I believe was more down to worse visibility than anything else. In RBR you have a notable difference between dry and wet. But what I do know for certain is that the AI drivers are driving the same stage times on both dry and wet... How worrying is all this exactly, I'm not sure, the old CMR games could give some indication on what to think but I'm not reinstalling any of them just to check.
2) Damages
- In RBR you have a choice of "Safe", "Reduced" and "Realistic" damage modes and not only that, in Rally Season's Champion level your rally ends right there if you "collide with a bystander"... Heck, that was something truly special as a concept even if the organisers have a tendency to be in a wrong place and occasionally that feature may have left you only frustrated. So of course DR doesn't have to go that far to get points from me, but there's no question that the game needs that often suggested "hardcore mode". And I don't think they'd need to even tie any driving aids to the difficulty levels, only the damages, and I'd be happy. Simple as that. I know some people would like to force things such as cockpit views in online events and even though I would welcome it, I'm not really that passionate about it.
3) The tyre selection
- OK, this is admittedly a tough one for DR devs and I don't envy them. RBR had Dry, Intermediate and Wet tarmac/gravel tyres and one type of snow tyre, and probably as such oversimplified by today's standards, as there seem to be three different compounds for each type of tyre nowadays. But even so, without some sort of a rudimentary tyre selection in DR, you'll always have the right tyres on, never mind what the itinerary looks like. That sure doesn't sound good enough to me.
4) Service park
- This is probably the easiest thing to fix and that's good, because currently the feature is just useless, with the percentages and all. I end up using the crew recommendation every single time because the concept doesn't give me any satisfaction. So it needs to be overhauled in a BIG way. In fact, they should be stealing from... you guessed it, RBR. The damage levels in RBR for different parts were "light", "medium", "severe" and "lost"; and your job was to replace parts (the clock was running while you were making decisions, even), not fixing something like tyres from 91% to 95% like in DR. And right now in DR you're not free to customise when these services take place. Always after two stages. Hopefully customising the itinerary will not prove to be impossible feature toadd only because it could ruin the "clean" menu design...
5) "Modding support"
- CM should make modding possible in as many departments as possible. And I'm not referring to any official mod support like Steam Workshop, because who in the right mind would be interested in that? Steam Workshop only spells trouble and useless restrictions that could render the whole activity pointless. No, just let people open any encrypted packs (audio etc.) and edit what's inside of them. Sure, some areas could be closed for eternity (RBR was quite a closed one, to be fair) and track modding support is obviously one of those more complicated areas, but it would be incredible if Codemasters actually released a plugin for 3ds Max or Blender to make exporting to the Dirt format possible. It's not like they'd have to share ALL of their plugins/tools and secrets for stage creation. From what I've read, apparently they don't use/have any track editors of their own, it's only 3ds max from start to finish, so who knows? Maybe it can be done.
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Tobbe Bergman
@Simberia
And those people are all called arcade players and have most certainly never driven a real car
It's quite painful reading on how a lot of you people try to put objective weight behind subjective opinion and use logical fallacies to make it seem like I don't know how to drive (normal car or rally car)
Mod Edit<snip> and stop trying to act as if liking an old game's physics more makes you a better driver or better person.
Mod Edit<snip> and stop trying to act as if liking an old game's physics more makes you a better driver or better person.
Last edited by a moderator:
I swear, elitists effing tilt me like no one else. Get off your high horse already.
Andy_J
I hate Race cheats ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Wow, some cry babies here. Carry on. An influx of arcade ex console racers on here is bound to sway opinion a little these days. Bless em. Each to their own I say. Like what you like, if it's easier, so be it. They are still all games though, some easy, some harder. Some designed for the masses and some designed for the enthusiast. I know which ones I prefer.
Now where were we?
Now where were we?
I don't understand people who say RBR is harder to drive. I'm a newb to racing sims (got a wheel and played my first sim a month ago) and never drove a real rally car yet RBR feels so much better and intuitive than Dirt Rally.
I could take on RBR with a decent amount of control after some hours of practice. The game reacts to my inputs vividly, the FFB talks to me and the physics flows consistently.
I must have over 20 hours on dirt rally and still drive like ****. My inputs feel so weak and the FFB is so jerky. The brakes are ridiculously effective yet the oversteer is nonexistant. The problem is not only the engine power as the modern rally cars, being more realistic on the speed side, still feel very weak overall.
I could take on RBR with a decent amount of control after some hours of practice. The game reacts to my inputs vividly, the FFB talks to me and the physics flows consistently.
I must have over 20 hours on dirt rally and still drive like ****. My inputs feel so weak and the FFB is so jerky. The brakes are ridiculously effective yet the oversteer is nonexistant. The problem is not only the engine power as the modern rally cars, being more realistic on the speed side, still feel very weak overall.
Some people hold RBR up as the gold standard of rally titles. Those who don't aren't automatically simcaders, console crybabies and Mum's basement dwelling non drivers.
Some people love what Dirt Rally has achieved thus far in early access. They're not simcaders, console crybabies and basement dwelling non drivers either.
Some people can rationally discuss what they like or dislike about the titles, and accept that others will have different opinions. There's some great input on this very thread about the relative strengths of RBR and DR.
Other people demand that others feel the same about their preferred title as they do, and stoop to derision and belittlement and logical fallacy instead of reasoned discussion. They're elitists. This and every other sim racing forum is infested with them.
My advice to RBR elitists: if you want to play a game exactly like RBR, then play RBR. If you want to extol the virtues of RBR over all else, there's an RBR subforum. Wading into another title's subforum and belittling its players just cheapens Racedepartment.
Some people love what Dirt Rally has achieved thus far in early access. They're not simcaders, console crybabies and basement dwelling non drivers either.
Some people can rationally discuss what they like or dislike about the titles, and accept that others will have different opinions. There's some great input on this very thread about the relative strengths of RBR and DR.
Other people demand that others feel the same about their preferred title as they do, and stoop to derision and belittlement and logical fallacy instead of reasoned discussion. They're elitists. This and every other sim racing forum is infested with them.
My advice to RBR elitists: if you want to play a game exactly like RBR, then play RBR. If you want to extol the virtues of RBR over all else, there's an RBR subforum. Wading into another title's subforum and belittling its players just cheapens Racedepartment.
Tobbe Bergman
@Simberia
Which is exactly what you are doing now.
And this thread is very much about the comparisons of DR and RBR in case you hadn't noticed.
Touché
Some people !
I couldn't have said it better myself
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A game can not simulate the gforce effect that makes a car to lost the grip because it goes to fast into the turns all fellings how a game respond is from the FFB from a wheel the gforce is not there or in the game or in the playseat you drive with so whats real simulation or arcade is always chat about we can say that no games can have same feel like drive a real car in life..so simulate it is closest way but never same as in real life. when we have hardware that can simulate gforce then maybe it is more realistic felling
Tobbe Bergman
@Simberia
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