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iRacing are censoring their official forums

Discussion in 'iRacing' started by eobet, May 8, 2013.

  1. I posted the folloing thread titled "are iRacing flushing their brand down the toilet", which may be harsh, but their latest business decisions are truly baffling to me so I wanted to get a discussion going on the subject:

    However, the topic was up for around 24 hours before it was unceremoniously deleted, without any reason given. In fact, iRacing never seems to give any reason for why they delete or lock any threads, which is within their right, but it is rather strange for such a community driven game.
  2. Actually, the only reason I managed to save this topic was because I was actually preparing to reply to everyone in the thread when it was deleted. Here are as far as I got with my answers before they disappeared:

    No, I did not say that, you didn't understand my post. If they had made a proper port without using WINE I would not have any argument against them. Let me put it this way: If iRacing had first come out on Mac, but you could get it on Windows emulated, which would you go for?

    You lifted one of my arguments from my post out of context, and you do not understand how the friend list in Steam works. If a game supports the Steam platform fully, you can invite people directly into the game you are currently running via the friend list. But you are right about the 2.0 release. How many new members did that bring?

    I think the problem you are having is that you think this is a "raving" discussion. I know quite a lot of the answers here are, but I'm trying to have a rational discussion. ;)

    Not all business decisions are sound.
  3. I'm pretty amazed by how many critical threads iRacing allow to go on forever. It's only when they devolve into abuse between members they tend to close them. This one went that direction pretty darn quick (not that it had a very rational beginning).

    But if you haven't noticed threads disappearing before... where were you?

    My response in that thread.
    That's a misinterpretation. The post you quoted was in response to concerns that current members would be required to use Steam. All Tony was saying is that Steam would not be mandatory, he never said they wouldn't also include stuff like the Steam overlay.
  4. iRacing censoring posts?

    Gee I never heard of such a thing? Not like they arent notorious for banning forum accounts with no reason and sending negative threads into a black hole.
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  5. don't see the fuss, if someone pukes on my carpet I show him the door as well, ceremoniously or not. It's my house and my carpet just as it's iRacing's forum.
    put up a free private forum and say what you want, build your own house next to mine (but not too close) and puke all you want, couldn't care less.
    personally I'd say: it's just a game, cool down. noone forces us to spend any amount of time and / or thought let alone money on it.
    the basic idea - as far as I grasp it: some blokes make money with it and some play it. That's as far as it gets for me.
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  6. Very well said Eckhart!
  7. Then why are you posting anything here at all?

    Your analogy is stupid, btw, because that "house" you liken iRacing with is dependent on people paying to come there, and when the landlord suddenly wants to break down a few walls to put in new entrances, but not pay for actual doors ("zero work", as I posted) am I not allowed to ask other people in the house what they think about it, and how that house that used to be very fancy might end up being perceived after their quick remodeling?

    But of course you'd think that that was "puke" since actual mental effort went into that post, which is more than I can say for your self admitted lack of interest or willingness to analyze possible future repercussions of the new business plans!
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  8. It is their business, so they are allowed to take any direction they think will give the them a bright future.

    If people think they need to go on and on and on telling them that they are wrong is tiring for them, dont you think? Especially if the discussions turn into emotional nonconstructive ones... I think i would do the same at some point, as I need to concentrate my forces on developing the stuff and not defending it.
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  9. It's a fascinating phenomenon that whenever anyone tries to start a discussion critiquing iRacing, it almost immediately derails into a critique of the person who started the discussion, like in this thread, or a discussion about whether you are allowed to critique iRacing at all. :rolleyes:
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  10. Critiquing, lol, twice I've seen the word in 2min :p
  11. Bram

    Administrator Staff Premium

    eobet Maybe you confuse opinions with critique. If people have a different view than you have they aren't allowed to express them?

    As long as people stick to the simple forum rules we have, everything can be discussed here.
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  12. Well, right now, we are 10 posts into the thread and not a single poster have expressed themselves regarding anything that has to do with the actual contents of my first post. I'm still waiting for these different views! (Well, Eckhart's view of "everything is fine and I don't want to discuss it" hardly counts, I hope.)
  13. Bram

    Administrator Staff Premium

    The example of "their house, their rules" was pretty on topic I think.

    There was a thread on their forums discussing the review that Austin posted a while ago and when the responses changed from negative to positive (people actually agreeing with some spot on remarks in the review) they locked it as well. Do I agree with it? No at all, especially after all the fuzz that some people made about a review that got a nice 7/10.

    But there isn't much you can do about it as it's their forum and they can do with it whatever they think is best for them which is logical. If you don't agree with the way they run their own forum you are of course free not to use it, just like with any other forum on the interwebs.
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  14. Well, either it must be something with me having English as a secondary language that causes my attempts to convey my view to fail, or we can't discuss the possible brand implications of iRacing's new platform strategy on this forum either...
  15. Uhm...
    Well, I'm pretty sure the lock came due to the generally large amount of bile directed toward Austin. I'm usually surprised by how long iRacing lets purely critical threads go on. They have to go pretty far off the rails before they lock them down. If someone just expresses a poor opinion, it usually stays open as long as nobody acts the fool. From what I understand of some other offical forums, it's pretty lenient.
  16. I'm going to leave this here:

    I made a thread on the iR forums about being able to hear my parents shagging down the hall.

    It's still up.

    A few weeks later, someone linked my iRacing review. The thread was locked and deleted after the majority of users started to agree with what I said about the road cars being fundamentally broken.

    It's also been confirmed by a few people that have access to the "staff" section of the iR forums, that users are indeed blacklisted for talking negatively, and moderators are told to lock topics criticizing the game.

    Nobody who spent any kind of money on iRacing, wants it to fail, myself included. People criticize the game because they've found legitimate problems and want them fixed. Why in God's name would you delete those topics and pretend all is well, yet you're totally fine with useless topics about some dude hearing his parents having sex?

    After having E-Mail conversations with a bunch of higher-ups in iRacing, they have the mentality of a fourteen year old girl taking pictures of herself in the bathroom. They believe they are absolutely perfect, and everybody who thinks otherwise are just haters. I wouldn't call them delusional, because if the bugs were fixed and physics were at an acceptable standard, I could see iRacing being awesome, but they refuse to believe that anything is wrong with the game in the first place.
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  17. Well that's just it, they know the game is wrong but they cant admit it. It's an interesting situation honestly. I feel bad for them on that part, but the fact is that iRacing is falling pretty had and IMO you are only going to get more lashing out at the community specifically people they see as dangerous.

    Just today a staffer basically said that members were "creating a controversy" that didnt exist over the Lotus 49.

    Did iRacing not say it was coming out. Then delay it, then give every one their money back(well not really they have your $ but you have "credits" now) and then delay it, say its coming out last build. Then delay it, and then say they dont know but maybe this build?

    How did the member's create this controversy?
  18. I think if iRacing is struggling it's because the gaming industry has changed and has left them behind. Aside from the absolute giants in online gaming (Blizzards World of Warcraft) all the subscription games have moved to a free to play model, with microtransactions, often an optional subscription that gives you extras/convenience. And you know what, they are making a killing.

    iRacing is in the unique position of having both a compulsory subscription and (not so) microtransactions. It has been a good while now since I played iRacing but I liked it a lot, I wouldn't ever say it was without it's flaws but as a complete system I thought it was very good, I just didn't think it was worth the very high pricing, to really play it you have to be very invested in the game both with time and money, and I found my fix elsewhere for a lot cheaper.

    Fact is that all these games have gone free to play not because their subscription models have failed, but because the free to play model simply makes them more money, by attracting more customers.

    Anyway, I don't know how well iRacing are doing as far as money is concerned but I do hope they can continue to thrive in the future.
  19. Bram

    Administrator Staff Premium

    I doubt that all subscription games have moved to a free to play model. So far free-to-play to me is a total joke as at least in our niche free is not free at all.

    You can debate whether iracing is too expensive or not (i think hobbies cost money and its relatively cheap considering that) but at least they are straight forward about it. We are a subscription based game and you can join in or not, no worries.

    Others like SRW or R3E pretend to be free-to-play and do everything to make sure that they are seen as free to play but in practice they are equally expensive as full sub based games like iRacing.

    Then I prefer the open approach of iRacing, with on going development and support, above being tricked into something that offers one free car and track followed by the inevitable moment that you have to pay microtransactions up to 38 dollars for a virtual car.

    Until three years ago free-to-play was still called a demo.

    In a not so distant future the free-to-play bubble will burst and companies will regret that they have bullshitted their customers/community only for a cheap quantity cash over quality.

    Customer = King is a cliche for a reason.
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  20. You can't compare it to other hobbies though, iRacing is the most expensive way to play a sim racing hobby by quite a margin, there are many other cheaper ways to play. The only subscription game that I can name that is left is World of Warcraft, everything else that I know of has gone free to play. If you look at the big online games

    Star Wars : The Old Republic
    Everquest 1 / 2
    League of Legends
    Warhammer Online
    Lord of the Rings Online

    Just to name a few, but most of these started out as big subscription model games, that then moved to a free to play model and thrived from it. And don't think this means demo, I've personally tried both Star Wars and TERA, they are complete games that you can play from start to finish, with minor limiting factors (such as limited character slots, and limited item storage). Others are still the full game but require to you buy the additional characters (League of Legends), essencially the same as what you get for your subscription with iRacing, without buying additional content.

    You can't say SimRaceway isn't free to play, you sign up and you get all the tracks along with 3 cars for free. You spend an hour playing it and you have an already large list of cars that you can afford with just credits earned from playing, and if you're fast you can win prizes that allow you to buy the more expensive stuff for free. The fact is you can play that without spending a penny if you want, I have 61 cars on SRW and have spent considerably less money than I ever spent with iRacing. Just because there are $30 cars it does not mean you have to buy them.

    Like I said, I don't know how well iRacing is doing financially but I can tell you that it would be massively more popular if it wasn't so expensive, I can't begin to remember how many conversations I've had with people who were put off by the price, or how many friends I failed to convince to join me when I was playing it, or the people who quit after their initial 3 month deal because it was too expensive to move forward.

    Using the "hobbies cost money" card isn't a valid excuse for something being overly expensive. iRacing could swap to an optional subscription with a limited version free to play game like many other games have done, and they would make more money from it.
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