Important: Reminder of Conduct

[Ben Eastman]

I heard rumors you want to suspend him from commentating. The point is, that you waste your time with completly useless things like this thread. Instead of updating the standings on the homepage, put in all the Ace and Pro Race reviews, look for volunteers, going through all the sim racing communitys and making ads to get a full WC grid at least.
I can understand if somebody have not enough time for some volunteer job. But I prefer to quit the job if I cant do it right and with 100% power because there is somewhere someone, who can do it with more time and full power. You`re only blocking the job as president for someone who would get things done and maybe have more time for this job than you.

You have some points but I wanna throw my 2 cents in.

You believe FSR community should maintain its right to "freedom of speech", which put in practice in this micro-community means belittling, trolling and getting angry at those who do not meet the high standards.

Look at vladimir's case and point in the last race. New blood for the league, sure the guy may have been ambitious in joining WC with maybe 2 weeks of practice, and yes he didn't have the greatest first race, but you guys(and I'm not singling you out here) basically set him up for failure with your comments as if anything but P1 would have been validation that he wasn't ready, then when he makes a mistake you shame him. With that kind of attitude to failure why would anyone take a risk trying this league? As much as you need experienced quality racers at the top you need an influx of new racers to gradually work their way up the leagues, otherwise slowly but surely this league will fold up and go the way of the Mohicans. Fixing the elitism here is one of the first steps.

Hell as a newb to FSR last year I had people like you Georg and many others ignore basic questions about rf2 setup and physics because "why would you help the competition". How is helping someone with a basic question like "does higher engine brake map mean more engine braking or less" when they are 5-6 seconds off the pace helping the competition? I may not be the fastest racer or best at setup but when an absolute noob comes into the server and asks for a set il atleast send him one and answer any questions I can, because one day that person may up their pace and join the league rather than get frustrated at endlessly lapping trying to learn and having no one there to give supportive tips or just to be nice.

I don't really have much of a stake in the future of this league as maybe some of you do but at the moment it does offer the best physical driving experience and simulation of a real race event; however can you really argue that FSR is the pinnacle of sim racing as it was 4-5 years ago?

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

Hell as a newb to FSR last year I had people like you Georg and many others ignore basic questions about rf2 setup and physics because "why would you help the competition". How is helping someone with a basic question like "does higher engine brake map mean more engine braking or less" when they are 5-6 seconds off the pace helping the competition? I may not be the fastest racer or best at setup but when an absolute noob comes into the server and asks for a set il atleast send him one and answer any questions I can, because one day that person may up their pace and join the league rather than get frustrated at endlessly lapping trying to learn and having no one there to give supportive tips or just to be nice.

You have no understanding of how competition in FSR works. Nobody from top teams is going to send you any information, in particular not setups. It's already dictated by their contracts. Same as asking some F1 driver to provide his telemetry to a competing team.

FSR is team-driven unlike some other leagues, which is brilliant concept I think. You cannot just enter as an individual like Vlad and expect to be successful, it doesn't work. It's something you should have understood at this point. If you are not in a serious team you should forget about setting any goals for your FSR career. Another problem is that there are only 4 or 5 "teams" in WC at moment, but that's due to other issues we have currently. The team concept is what makes FSR unique and has proved to work brilliantly over the years.

 

[Kuba Brzeziński]

Another thing is that if it was me, I wouldn't give you my setup, because you're gonna share the setup with other people, who won't be 6sec off the pace and even if most likely you won't share the setup with Twister drivers, so it probably wouldn't hurt me, there are other drivers in my team competing in Ace and Pro and it could hurt them. It's just obvious that noone is gonna help someone else. I would even expect other teams to deliberately give you false info, which is totally fine by my standards as that's what competition is all about. You can't expect FSR to be one of the best leagues out there and people to share their secrets with other drivers at the same time. That's not what competition is all about.

 

[Blair Disley]

If everyone was made to share setups after race[checked via fsr manager], it would solve the "I don't have his setup" issue.

You could not really say that anymore.

 

[Ben Eastman]

You have no understanding of how competition in FSR works. Nobody from top teams is going to send you any information, in particular not setups. It's already dictated by their contracts. Same as asking some F1 driver to provide his telemetry to a competing team.

FSR is team-driven unlike some other leagues, which is brilliant concept I think. You cannot just enter as an individual like Vlad and expect to be successful, it doesn't work. It's something you should have understood at this point. If you are not in a serious team you should forget about setting any goals for your FSR career. Another problem is that there are only 4 or 5 "teams" in WC at moment, but that's due to other issues we have currently. The team concept is what makes FSR unique and has proved to work brilliantly over the years.

I understand perfectly well how competition works, however I think your making a massive overstatement. I played sc2 competitively for years with some reasonably successful semi-pro teams, and it's true that for example the best players would intentionally hide newly developed strategies and build orders by only using them in inter-clan games(compare that to setups), but at the same time many times for example the first time I played Empire.Kas in a tournament, after he cleaned the floor with me I asked him for tips on mistakes I made and he spent 10-20 minutes talking the game with me(this is asking how the brake ducts etc works in rf2). I certainly understand why the top drivers/teams would be unwilling to divulge anything which could impact their prospects but realistically is not ignoring/providing basic tips or even just saying "just google xxxx and you will find help" that extraordinary? I certainly don't have "aspirations for my FSR career", it would be nice to be a member of a team or to have a partner to bounce setups with but at the end of the day I'm here for ***** and gigs so if I spend the rest of my "career" in the middle of the pack in Pro before drifting off somewhere else it's just meant to be.

ATM yes there are only a few unique teams, which basically makes this whole league as in-bred as a Lousiana swamp family; but what chance are there of new teams forming when your putting up barriers to stop this from happening? A new team in WC goes in knowing that it's going with a knife to a gunfight as there are just too many related teams etc. for a new team to be viable.

And @Kuba Brzeziński again I respect your point but say a guy is on the server you have never seen needs stupid advice like he doesn't know if more wing angle means more downforce are you really going to agree its appropriate to tell to decrease it for more wing because it's "competition"? If I was in your shoes I wouldn't send my setup either, my case is different as frankly im not really giving away "secrets". So what's your argument against linking Johnny 2Slow with a good website explaining race car setup?

 

[Georg Winter]

@ Ben
the Vladimier case ya. Well. Lets see... Holzmann came last year here with his extremly arrogant behavior. people started to trolling him. Kuba came, he was quite and was doing well. everybody liked him. Vladimier comes, say in an arrogant way, that he can beat the best of the best without practice. he receive trolling. Do you see the difference? What goes around, comes around. And like Jes already said. In FSR you`re nothing without a team because most people dont have the money to buy a WC team for themself just to notice, that they are not fast enough to get their money paied back.

 

[Martin Hodás]

As Georg said - Vlad was beheaving like total arro, so what would you expect? People was wishing him to fail and it happend.... easy as that.

 

[Ben Eastman]

As Georg said - Vlad was beheaving like total arro, so what would you expect? People was wishing him to fail and it happend.... easy as that.

Was he really that bad? I read his L4T thread and had a good chat with him on server and didn't really get that impression. Sure he was over ambitious but he didn't turn up like "il woop u all u suck".

I agree if people are cocky and arrogant but why troll me and other people who are trying to learn on our own? Seems counterproductive to me...

 

[Georg Winter]

I agree, that we need a better help to get new drivers. Maybe 2 or 3 times per year a young driver event where new drivers can show what they have, ask technical questions like you mentioned above etc.

 

[David O'Reilly]

Personally I think Merelli got more nasty responses than he deserved.
When you want a drive in WC you are not going to arrive and say "here I am, I'm **** will someone give me a drive"
You are always going to tell your story the best you can and promote your skills.
Maybe he bigged it up a little with quali laps on the server on Supersofts or whatever. Does it really mean he deserves to be pilloried.

Its very possible that Merelli underestimated the performance level in WC. He arrived and found he wasn't top 10. Is that a national emergency? Do you want this new driver to think, "wow these guys are good" or wow some of these guys are dickheads" because the second one is what I would think If I were him.

I noticed that Max Chiltern came 4th in his indy lights debut at St Petersburg. The announcers and the other drivers didnt go on the web site and say "what a dick, he only came 4th". It was more "well if an F1 drivers comes 4th it shows the standard here is high and a credit to the other drivers".

There really could be a little more goodwill around here. A few more positives than negatives, a few more "well done Fred" instead of "you suck".
Now that might offend some peoples thought on freedom of speech or whatever. You might be a person who feels its an inalienable right to be rude. Personally I think it would be nice.
The impact of the ill-will and nastiness; I volunteered to write race write ups after each round. It takes a few hours a week. It makes me wonder why I would bother if this is how people behave.

Now I'm not going to get into a debate here with any individuals. I am just asking ppl to think before they post.

Peace Out.

 

[David O'Reilly]

I agree, that we need a better help to get new drivers. Maybe 2 or 3 times per year a young driver event where new drivers can show what they have, ask technical questions like you mentioned above etc.

Georg I think you are really on to something here.
Well promoted across the various sites it could be a winner.
Set ups
Coaching (quick guys on board and giving feedback).
Practice race
Popular and simple track (Spa?)
Lets start a thread and get some plans going.

 

[Ben Eastman]

Georg I think you are really on to something here.
Well promoted across the various sites it could be a winner.
Set ups
Coaching (quick guys on board and giving feedback).
Practice race
Popular and simple track (Spa?)
Lets start a thread and get some plans going.

That's a fantastic idea to be honest and a great way to draw in more users(which means bigger audience/bigger prize pool for those at the top, so it benefits everybody in a way).

As for Vlad to be honest I have to take my hats to him because to be fair he was only 1+lap when he retired, which is not exactly terrible; I don't think I would be able to match that.

 

[Vladimer Mereli]

I am reading too many useless posts here. Just read the first post and that's all u need to do, this topic shouldn't even be of discussion and it went completely off topic like the rest of the topics here due to again excessive trolling and opinions that don't matter. Now for some reason I am in this topic... I think I said before the race that top 10 result would be good for me, because later I realized the rubber was being laid differently on the 2015 version track compared to 2014 which I had practiced previously. I realized this too late and in panic tried new things, changed too much of my setup in the final days, with all this fatigue set in without even me realizing, and still with an unbalanced car I was able to stay with the pack at an early stage and not touch anyone, but honestly I don't care what the "Winters" and a few others like him have to say or think, I still hope I can fight for top 10 here, my mentality is strong and a few comments will not change a thing.

Regarding the conduct of some drivers I saw some very bad conduct on the server the other day in that "Fun Race" which was supposed to be on Netrex, but then 10 of the "mini fun races" happened on the primary FSR server. Someone was very abusive and childish towards Ben Eastman, it was something u see in schools with 12 year olds to be honest. I hope that stops soon, because even if I am not top 10 and I see some childish things I will point them out. Just because you are faster at the moment, it doesn't mean you are smarter or have the rights to abuse others. I am very much faster in a different league but I don't act like we see some acting here. Drama is GOOD, but disrespect is BAD. So make your posts accordingly.

P.S. Just now read some accusation about me supposedly saying that I would win without practice... I don't know where u see those things mate, maybe u should open your eyes. I have been driving this same exact mod on other tracks for 3 months now in a different league, the only difference was the tires grip (since last update) and tracks. So get your information right! It was someone else who was saying he would win without practice. not me.

 

[Georg Winter]

well, your last passage is right and I say sry for that. Mixed you up with another guy

 

[Marcel van der Linden]

Im not so much on the FSR forum anymore since few months. But when i go and take a look on how things are going it looks gettings worse and worse.
I also see the same names again and again complaining and give their opinion.

Pls guys.... stop it. It is good to have an opinion, but there is no need to always give your opinion on things u do or dont like.

On every sub forum of FSR u see the same discussion over and over.

If those guys do more for FSR, in speaking of more testing, finding new people, or something else, and do less putting up discussions and give their "unwanted" opinions, maybe there can be a more balance in on- and off track.

Looks like nowadays the competition is on forums then on the race track.

Try to fix it in private and not in a public forum because this will keep the dark clouds over FSR.