oh Well, More time for me to perfect Impact I guess LOL
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DiRT Rally IMPACT Force Feedback 7.0
- Thread starter TemplarGFX
- Start date
Indeed.
I went and did thorough testing of the 3.0.
What comes to T500rs, I had to edit the scale levels of the road surface effects.
They we too strong and made the FFB feel muddled with too much similar effects. The surface effects basically drowned the finer details of suspension and tire model under them.
I ended up dropping the surface effects by almots 50% with couple more small adjustments, till I found the feel I was looking for.
The problem here is that as the FFB becomes better and better, the physic flaws comes to the surface and no matter what you do with the FFB, they cannot be hidden.
Good example is how the tarmac grip works in low speeds and how it is missing linearity from grip to limit to loss of grip.
Other issue lies in the surface types. Tarmac with 3.0 had really harsh surface vibration, but it wasn't as bad when driving on gravel in Wales.
Obviously have to take into consideration that tarmac rally setup is much stiffer than gravel rally, but espesially on tarmac is when the FFB got way too two dimentional.
Love this on the CSW V2!! First time i felt a slight temp difference out the back but feels great.. Havent tried all the surfaces yet but gravel and tarmac is good so far, at least with the E30. Prolly gona back off on a few settings but not much. Thanx
Hello all, this is my first post to a discussion thread here at RD. Been following a few threads, but this FFB Mod was very appealing because I'm not happy with the default Tarmac FFB in Dirt Rally. So I installed this today and I'm not getting any FFB at all. I followed the instructions, set my in-game "vibration and feedback" sliders to 100%, but all FFB is gone. I backed up the "forcefeedback" folder, so I can revert back, but I'm anxious to try out an alternative.
I'm running a T300RS, T3PA pedals, Windows 8.1. And I have Dirt Rally .5. Any thoughts as to how to troubleshoot? Thanks!
I'm running a T300RS, T3PA pedals, Windows 8.1. And I have Dirt Rally .5. Any thoughts as to how to troubleshoot? Thanks!
I wouldn't start with all at 100% unless you are using G27, which it was mean to and seems to work with. If I would put all sliders to 100% on my t500, the wheel would jump out of the window at first corner. I'd recommend starting to search for the perfect FFB setup by putting everything at 0 except Self Aligning Torque at around 60, colision 100, soft lock 100, and increase one at the time till you are happy.
Other option is to try something like all 60-70 (soft lock always 100 if you have it enabled) and increase/degrees to find the good setup.
Reason that all of the ffb is missing, no clue. I would start by checking your steps of "installing" the mod. It's only one file, so take a backup fro the original (which you already have) and just copy paste it to the forcefeedback folder and replace the original. I see no reason why it wouldn't work.
Other option is to try something like all 60-70 (soft lock always 100 if you have it enabled) and increase/degrees to find the good setup.
Reason that all of the ffb is missing, no clue. I would start by checking your steps of "installing" the mod. It's only one file, so take a backup fro the original (which you already have) and just copy paste it to the forcefeedback folder and replace the original. I see no reason why it wouldn't work.
I did some extensive testing yesterday evening with the new tarmac release and on the G27 came to pretty much the same conclusions as Golanv.
I'm running the logitech profiler as in my post above, but now have these in-game settings:
S.A.T. = 77%
Wheel Friction = 45%
Tyre Friction =45%
Susp = 65%
Tyre Slip = 60%
Collision = 100%
Soft Lock = 100%
This gives me the most realistic feel on both tarmac and gravel at the moment. I didn't realise quite how much of the feel I was loosing with wheel and tyre friction cranked up as high as they were before. There seems to be a bit of a compromise to be met between tarmac and gravel running, but to me this seems to be more to do with the limitations of the physics engine and tyre model, as the cars just don't seem to handle quite right on tarmac, rather than the limitations of the FFB. - More tweaking and observations to follow....
I'm running the logitech profiler as in my post above, but now have these in-game settings:
S.A.T. = 77%
Wheel Friction = 45%
Tyre Friction =45%
Susp = 65%
Tyre Slip = 60%
Collision = 100%
Soft Lock = 100%
This gives me the most realistic feel on both tarmac and gravel at the moment. I didn't realise quite how much of the feel I was loosing with wheel and tyre friction cranked up as high as they were before. There seems to be a bit of a compromise to be met between tarmac and gravel running, but to me this seems to be more to do with the limitations of the physics engine and tyre model, as the cars just don't seem to handle quite right on tarmac, rather than the limitations of the FFB. - More tweaking and observations to follow....
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The primary issue with the current FFB is that most functions are entirely too limited (and not for any real reason AFAIK).
Self-Aligning Torque only has a single variable, yet it does a lot more than just turn the wheel to point where your going. Of course CM have access to the code that drives it and the un-exposed variables that control it, but without additional options there is little we can do to effect how the central mechanic on the wheel reacts to the game.
Suspension has no built-in scaling features, so variable effects require individual coding. simple scaleLow/scaleHigh, freqLow/freqHigh inputs (which are available on other functions) would allow a single line of code per suspension on the car to create the most realistic suspension feedback. As it stands now, you cannot get information for a single wheel, only front, rear or all.
Finally the samples used to have additional features called envelope and channel. These were removed and variation was moved to frequency. There are two new variables min and max on samples which are set to -1 / 1. I assume this is rotation direction or clockwise/anti-clockwise on the wheel, but changing them seemed to do little. Regardless the envelope feature gave a much greater amount of control over what you felt on the wheel and without it, its very difficult to create a specific feeling on the wheel. Its probably a lot easier for CM with their dev interface (if only I had that!)
I can't tell you how frustrating it is to look at that FFB and see exactly how it could be (easily) modified to create amazing FFB, but those changes be out of my control!
In my latest test I created a big series of individual entries for suspension that covered every 0.1 or 0.5 from 0 to 10 (beyond maximum) compression and manually set scale to increase on a curve, and frequency to decrease linearly. With two easily exposed attributes this setup could have been done easily with 1 line of code. The result in game was immediately impressive!
When driving up pikes peak some sparse subtle rumbles came through the wheel on the tarmac, but as soon as the front wheel went off the tarmac the vibration increased in sharpness and strength. Most of the time I could feel the actual edge of the tarmac through the wheel.
On gravel it felt completely different with constantly changing vibrations through the wheel, and forceful bumps on extreme hits.
That was how good it was with my initial settings, I then tweaked it more and duplicated it for the rear of the car, but used a duller sample and frequency set to separate the two.
With about 20+ lines of code the suspension feedback (which should be 2) is incredible. You just need to watch a replay to see why, the suspension simulation seems to take additional information into account for surface detail, as the wheel bounces over non-existant 3D variations.
This amazing feedback was simply because the strength of the feedback, and the speed of the vibration you felt depended entirely on how much the suspension compressed, instead of been a set value.
I would be giving you a link along with this wall of text had steam not conspired against me! I downloaded the tarmac terror update not once, not twice but 3 times today... When Steam decided it wanted to get it for a forth time, I uninstalled the entire thing and removed all traces before restarting a fresh download. Thanks steam
Tomorrow!
Self-Aligning Torque only has a single variable, yet it does a lot more than just turn the wheel to point where your going. Of course CM have access to the code that drives it and the un-exposed variables that control it, but without additional options there is little we can do to effect how the central mechanic on the wheel reacts to the game.
Suspension has no built-in scaling features, so variable effects require individual coding. simple scaleLow/scaleHigh, freqLow/freqHigh inputs (which are available on other functions) would allow a single line of code per suspension on the car to create the most realistic suspension feedback. As it stands now, you cannot get information for a single wheel, only front, rear or all.
Finally the samples used to have additional features called envelope and channel. These were removed and variation was moved to frequency. There are two new variables min and max on samples which are set to -1 / 1. I assume this is rotation direction or clockwise/anti-clockwise on the wheel, but changing them seemed to do little. Regardless the envelope feature gave a much greater amount of control over what you felt on the wheel and without it, its very difficult to create a specific feeling on the wheel. Its probably a lot easier for CM with their dev interface (if only I had that!)
I can't tell you how frustrating it is to look at that FFB and see exactly how it could be (easily) modified to create amazing FFB, but those changes be out of my control!
In my latest test I created a big series of individual entries for suspension that covered every 0.1 or 0.5 from 0 to 10 (beyond maximum) compression and manually set scale to increase on a curve, and frequency to decrease linearly. With two easily exposed attributes this setup could have been done easily with 1 line of code. The result in game was immediately impressive!
When driving up pikes peak some sparse subtle rumbles came through the wheel on the tarmac, but as soon as the front wheel went off the tarmac the vibration increased in sharpness and strength. Most of the time I could feel the actual edge of the tarmac through the wheel.
On gravel it felt completely different with constantly changing vibrations through the wheel, and forceful bumps on extreme hits.
That was how good it was with my initial settings, I then tweaked it more and duplicated it for the rear of the car, but used a duller sample and frequency set to separate the two.
With about 20+ lines of code the suspension feedback (which should be 2) is incredible. You just need to watch a replay to see why, the suspension simulation seems to take additional information into account for surface detail, as the wheel bounces over non-existant 3D variations.
This amazing feedback was simply because the strength of the feedback, and the speed of the vibration you felt depended entirely on how much the suspension compressed, instead of been a set value.
I would be giving you a link along with this wall of text had steam not conspired against me! I downloaded the tarmac terror update not once, not twice but 3 times today... When Steam decided it wanted to get it for a forth time, I uninstalled the entire thing and removed all traces before restarting a fresh download. Thanks steam
Tomorrow!
Pikes Peak is so difficult to judge anything on, the cars feel so alien to any of my real world driving experiences. At least with the rally stages I can say I've driven a Mini, a Sierra, an E30 BMW and a Golf / Ibiza and can so give you some meaningful feedback. I think CM have their tyre model / grip level wrong on tarmac personally. It seems to give some bizarre 'snap effects' on the steering that I haven't noticed in real life or other sims. I should really check on the CM forums as to whether anyone else is finding this a problem.
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@TemplarGFX I can to totally see why it would be extremely frustrating, not only to know about the potential, but trying to get it as good as possible with what you got.
It's like trying to kill 10 birds with 3 stones, you are gonna miss few of those no matter how many times you try.
When you feel like you hit a wall, just leave it at that. CM needs to release a physics/FFB patch before it all even can come together.
You have done fantastic job so far, and made DR a lot more enjoyable for so many.
It's like trying to kill 10 birds with 3 stones, you are gonna miss few of those no matter how many times you try.
When you feel like you hit a wall, just leave it at that. CM needs to release a physics/FFB patch before it all even can come together.
You have done fantastic job so far, and made DR a lot more enjoyable for so many.
Tyre model and grip issues have been discussed on the CM forum, so I think we're going to need to see a patch for that before we see any great steps forward.
Couldn't agree with that statement more. Great work so far!
You have done fantastic job so far, and made DR a lot more enjoyable for so many.
Couldn't agree with that statement more. Great work so far!
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I finally found some time to sit down and try this. Holy cow man, this is leaps and bounds better than 2.0. Thank you very much. Now it is truly enjoyable FFB. Hell, I was completely engrossed just driving the mini around Germany for crying out loud. I salute you, sir. And I shall come back with any possible feedback once I wind down enough to be objective. Thanks again.
1st post here as I just tried your amazing FFB re-write! WOW its very good. I made a bunch of tweaks to the original and thought that was good before, but..... Great job!!!!!!!!
T300 user. BTW i turned down the static vibration to .15 from .25 as it was a tad to much for me. I have my Thrustmaster Profiler overall strength at 85%.
The new Germany road Stages are awesome in general and you REALLY feel the front wheel Torque pulling and its awesome! (fabcar) Almost too much, but don't want too touch things as the dirt/gravel stages feel good and could be maybe a tad stronger - but not sure 100%.
Honestly i couldnt wait to comment here and share my joy at the great work!!
T300 user. BTW i turned down the static vibration to .15 from .25 as it was a tad to much for me. I have my Thrustmaster Profiler overall strength at 85%.
The new Germany road Stages are awesome in general and you REALLY feel the front wheel Torque pulling and its awesome! (fabcar) Almost too much, but don't want too touch things as the dirt/gravel stages feel good and could be maybe a tad stronger - but not sure 100%.
Honestly i couldnt wait to comment here and share my joy at the great work!!
1st post here as I just tried your amazing FFB re-write! WOW its very good. I made a bunch of tweaks to the original and thought that was good before, but..... Great job!!!!!!!!
T300 user. BTW i turned down the static vibration to .15 from .25 as it was a tad to much for me. I have my Thrustmaster Profiler overall strength at 85%.
The new Germany road Stages are awesome in general and you REALLY feel the front wheel Torque pulling and its awesome! (fabcar) Almost too much, but don't want too touch things as the dirt/gravel stages feel good and could be maybe a tad stronger - but not sure 100%.
Honestly i couldnt wait to comment here and share my joy at the great work!!
Thankyou for the encouraging feedback! and to everyone else! I should be updating a new version that will blow your mind tonight!
Better feel, great one TemplarGFX!
@MikieC, where do you set the static vibration?
Also, OT, where does DR save the config preset? I save my settings but when I return to the game, they're back to defaults and my FFB settings and saved preset are gone
EDIT: Found it in My Documents\My Games folder but weird that wheelsettings doesn't get updated w/ any files, though benchmark (w/c resides in the same parent folder) does.
@MikieC, where do you set the static vibration?
Also, OT, where does DR save the config preset? I save my settings but when I return to the game, they're back to defaults and my FFB settings and saved preset are gone
EDIT: Found it in My Documents\My Games folder but weird that wheelsettings doesn't get updated w/ any files, though benchmark (w/c resides in the same parent folder) does.
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Static Vibration is inside the effectsetup_v2.xml. This line :Better feel, great one TemplarGFX!
@MikieC, where do you set the static vibration?
Also, OT, where does DR save the config preset? I save my settings but when I return to the game, they're back to defaults and my FFB settings and saved preset are gone
EDIT: Found it in My Documents\My Games folder but weird that wheelsettings doesn't get updated w/ any files, though benchmark (w/c resides in the same parent folder) does.
Code:
<!--========== Static Wheel Friction ==========-->
<FFBBaseFriction device="wheel" scale="0.25"/>I believe those settings are under c:\users\%username%\appdata\locallow\dirt rally\
Try running STEAM as administrator and see if the game is then able to save your settings
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