I'm shocked about AI

[barty]

ia why are so bad?

 

[Qazdar Karim]

I personally don't like AI at all ... but that's very personal It would be better to focus on MP and physics in my opinion! the physics refresh rate could benefit from this immensely for example. Even though i have difficulties understanding the link because other sims do it with more complex physics and AIs... maybe Kunos went too far with graphics ?

 

[Brandon Wright]

I personally don't like AI at all ... but that's very personal It would be better to focus on MP and physics in my opinion! the physics refresh rate could benefit from this immensely for example. Even though i have difficulties understanding the link because other sims do it with more complex physics and AIs... maybe Kunos went too far with graphics ?

In my Gran Turismo days I was exclusively an online racer and raced with friends 4-5 nights a week, even hosted multiple clubs and leagues. Since moving to PC's though, that's sadly no longer the case, so I've had to rely on decent AI to keep me entertained.

Yes, it's been my opinion (and it's just an opinion of one person) since the beginning that Kunos focused way too much on graphics and physics and neglected the parts of a sim that I personally desire and enjoy. That's one of the reasons I no longer play it much.

 

[Stereo]

Even though i have difficulties understanding the link because other sims do it with more complex physics and AIs... maybe Kunos went too far with graphics ?

AC's AI runs on the full physics engine, most other games run very simplified physics for the AI which results in its own problems (for example PCars AI is unbeatable in the rain cause it's not using the same tire physics)

 

[Qazdar Karim]

Well, that's probably not a good idea actually ... with the amount of calculations that need to be done in one 10ms iteration, it's too much ... simplified physics is the way to go i guess

 

[Cote Dazur]

Probably, but they've tinkered with it enough to make it their own flavor. It's certainly easier to start with a proven base AI, no argument there. I'm not trying to bash AC or Kunos, they've done a lot with a little. But since they claim virtually nobody uses their online mode it would benefit them to make sure their AI is at least acceptable, and the last update made some good progress toward that goal (from what I've heard).

Absolutely, the last update brought a lot of changes to the way the AI is racing, you might want to give them a go, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Try them on a Kunos track, since I have noticed that sometime on mod tracks, they still act like before the last update.They are easy to spot when acting the old way, they drive in a file and will hit you if you're in the way.

Off course doing a new AI fast lane takes minutes and fixes that issue on the MOD track.

With the new update, they pass you, they pass each other, lots of fun.

As far as AI are concerned, they are the closest to human driver I have ever experienced.
I am talking about the few human driver who are demonstrating any intelligence on track, not the usual drive a fast lap over driving and crash the next lap standard issue.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Where did the time go that sim racers didn't give a damn about AI and raced online against other people? Think I must have missed an exit somewhere.

 

[Brandon Wright]

Absolutely, the last update brought a lot of changes to the way the AI is racing, you might want to give them a go, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Try them on a Kunos track, since I have noticed that sometime on mod tracks, they still act like before the last update.They are easy to spot when acting the old way, they drive in a file and will hit you if you're in the way.

Off course doing a new AI fast lane takes minutes and fixes that issue on the MOD track.

With the new update, they pass you, they pass each other, lots of fun.

As far as AI are concerned, they are the closest to human driver I have ever experienced.
I am talking about the few human driver who are demonstrating any intelligence on track, not the usual drive a fast lap over driving and crash the next lap standard issue.

I plan to, once my PC is back up and running.

Where did the time go that sim racers didn't give a damn about AI and raced online against other people? Think I must have missed an exit somewhere.

Well, you know, according to the devs, only 1 in 10 people ever do online racing.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Well, you know, according to the devs, only 1 in 10 people ever do online racing.

My conclusion: put more efforts into improving the netcode and add the much needed features that are still missing and those numbers will rise.

Maybe it's time to start a campaign: I AM A MEMBER OF THE 1 IN 10 CLUB .

 

[Brandon Wright]

Maybe it's time to start a campaign: I AM A MEMBER OF THE 1 IN 10 CLUB .

I work for a printing company, I'll get to work on designing some bumper stickers and t-shirts!

 

[Dave R]

Where did the time go that sim racers didn't give a damn about AI and raced online against other people? Think I must have missed an exit somewhere.

Some of us feel the same way about racing online

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

I am curious about the motivations why one would choose to race against a computer over racing versus real people. Is it because online lobbies are full of people that cannot drive, time limitations, or something else?

 

[hexagramme]

Kunos has been coding AI for the better part of a decade now, since the netKar Pro days. An additional programmer was even brought in at one point. It just wasn't released to the public until they did the Assetto Corsa AI.

 

[Brownninja97]

I am curious about the motivations why one would choose to race against a computer over racing versus real people. Is it because online lobbies are full of people that cannot drive, time limitations, or something else?

The reason i do it is because there are certain cars or mods which never get touched online. I like doing multi-class racing, i dont see any lobbies with GTE, lmp2 & lmp1 together. Then there are the crazy races where i pit a mito againest a audi r18 at nords, give the mito a 3 minute head start and see if i can beat it to the finish. Im not a very fast driver so the ai isnt a massive issue for me(most of the time), online lobbies tend to play to their rules not mine, banzai charging is fine in most servers, the minorated ones are nice but only a few have the rating system. Honestly if the minorating got brought by kunos it would make a massive improvement to the experience there.

Kunos has been coding AI for the better part of a decade now, since the netKar Pro days. An additional programmer was even brought in at one point. It just wasn't released to the public until they did the Assetto Corsa AI.

the problem with AI is its extremely hard to code, ive done simple ai work and well its scary. kunos is in trouble because they built their foundations on python( BAD MOVE) and later realised C++ is vastly superior, now they have to deal with the drawbacks, i imagine AI is one of the problems they face, cpu usage is a big issue with the game so they need to get on multi threaded ai support asap if they want to improve the ai without it crapping on the fps or simulation speed.

 

[Cote Dazur]

@Bram I am not sure there was ever a time when SIM racers did not give a damn about AI, they might not have been as involved in social media and forums because driving offline does not necessitate the need to communicate with other simmer so it seemed that they were not there. Now social media is more natural to more people so here we are exchanging information and opinion using our keyboards, online and offline players.
Motivation is definitely the right word for your question, as to have any fun online you need a lot of it. Empty servers, always the same 3 tracks with the same type of cars if you find one, then you have to drive between the lunatics and the guys who are faster than you, so you end up doing glorified hot lapping, and then once in the evening you have a few laps with a guy who has the same pace. League off course fix a lot of that, but the organisation in your schedule makes it difficult to be part of, for most people but the most dedicated.
AI, if you set your virtual world to race them, not to win, (what is there to win anyway?) is very satisfying and can be very rewarding. I guess that is why 90% of us are doing it.

@Brandon Wright sorry to read that you still have issue with your PC, I hope it gets better soon.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Your last paragraph is exactly the reason why I race online Chit-chat a little bit with other people on TS and when I feel like being extremely competitive I race in a league, but mostly I race casual as well.

Different people, same flavors, different way to experience our hobby

 

[Brandon Wright]

I am curious about the motivations why one would choose to race against a computer over racing versus real people. Is it because online lobbies are full of people that cannot drive, time limitations, or something else?

I can't deny that nothing can beat racing real people, chit chatting with them about cars and motorsports while hooning it up on the track. That's great during club or league sessions. But there are a lot of random times I find myself wanting to race when people aren't around so it's nice to have some decent AI to race against when hot lapping gets boring. And it can be of some useful practice to prepare for real racing, get a feel for how your cars feels in traffic or dirty air, find alternate braking points, stuff like that.

Sure, it's not as good as the real thing, but it can still be entertaining and better than hot lapping. It's kinda like pizza, I prefer mine with lots of meat and some veggies, but I also enjoy a good cheese pizza on occasion too. No reason I can't enjoy one just because it's not quite as good as the other.

 

[Stereo]

kunos is in trouble because they built their foundations on python( BAD MOVE) and later realised C++ is vastly superior, now they have to deal with the drawbacks,

Nobody at Kunos writes python, the app interface exists due to a former staff member, the client is C++ and so are apps written by Kunos. Which is why it's hard for them to support it, since nobody on staff is actually using it.

 

[Brownninja97]

Nobody at Kunos writes python, the app interface exists due to a former staff member, the client is C++ and so are apps written by Kunos. Which is why it's hard for them to support it, since nobody on staff is actually using it.

oh ok i am misinformed then, still the point stands, AI is one of the hardest part of coding kunos have faced. hopefully they get it done effectively one day.

 

[speedrcr]

This thought always comes to mind when people complain about Ai, no matter the game. Matter of fact I thought this back in Gran Turismo days.

Perhaps if every person that complained about the Ai actually raced online (more) maybe there would be more races online. Perhaps some that might fit your pleasure. There's almost too many servers out there now, with minimal population to populate them.

Ai can be predictable over due time and even though challenging at moments, you can't predict someone locking their brakes on T1 of Spa; taking 3-5 people with them (my heart still skips a beat on that first turn at the start of a race, no matter who I race with). Even the moments we hate on in online races, especially public ones, I wouldn't trade it. Gives that randomness (no matter how bad) that you can't emulate offline.

Every race I go online, I think of real life races where happenstance and circumstance makes for the experience. And as much as it will piss you off, at least you get to safely walk away and reset to the pits and wait for another race. Some times you get luck and the race restarts

I know people have their reasons for not going online...just don't like it, "dial-up" (i.e. ISDN, Satelitte, EDGE, w/e, etc), scared, antisocial, or whatever..that's beside the point.

@Bram I am not sure there was ever a time when SIM racers did not give a damn about AI

Very true.
My first experience with sim Ai (less GT, NFS, etc) was in GTR2. Specifically at Lemans with if I remember right, a lot more than 70 Ai. (I want to say 90-95 but can't remember if you could set it that high offline, it was high though. Mind blown at the time)
Later I found you could have a server with Ai...that made it interesting for when you were waiting for players to connect. At least you had Ai to race with or could take up the field and make it quite interesting still with 3-5 actual humans.
Ultimately I wish there was a feature where you could race with Ai online so they could fill the empty spaces out there.

Have no idea how much Booking was a tease in this regard.

 

[poet]

I am curious about the motivations why one would choose to race against a computer over racing versus real people. Is it because online lobbies are full of people that cannot drive, time limitations, or something else?

Couple of things.

Firstly, yes you're right: the time limitations.
My work/home schedule doesn't allow me to join any leagues as it's just not that predictable, so that's out the window.
Then my gaming time is limited anyway, I'm lucky most days to get an hour in at most (I have other hobbies too - guitar mostly, other things too).
I can either spend that hour waiting in lobbies or faffing with online voting in pubs, or I can sit with the AI and have a structured quali/race with them without any faffing, so actually feel like I've acheived a full (ish) session rather than wasting my fairly precious free time.


Secondly, I don't like people for the most part.
The last time I gamed online with any regularity was back in the days of Quake3 where there was a great community and a good vibe online, these days of facebook and entitlement there just isn't the appeal.




I notice a LOT of online racers think they "are" sim-racing, but there's a decent sized chunk of us that don't race online, maybe you're even missing a trick by not catering to them more - how about RD members Time-trial competitions? That might even pull you in more customers.