I don't like it anymore

[Bram Hengeveld]

I don't know what it is but since the 2.0 upgrade the game feels totally ruined for me. The LMS cars, especially the Ford GT, have a griplevel like in iRacing. It suddenly snaps and there is no way you can correct the first or second (2nd!! how often do you see that in real life) slip like you used to.

Where did all the grip go? iRacing before the upgrade felt like driving real cars to me. Now its like rFactor again ;(

If there are any G27 users reading please share some information how you setup the wheel as my settings are useless now.

 

[Joe Hubbard]

I got to thinking about this after the last post and I wanted to add it. First I understand that everyone seems to have their own thoughts of what a race car should feel like or drive like. I would also be willing to bet that if you put two of the same cars on a track they would probably have their own characters and even though they would drive simular to each other they would have differences to each other. My point is I have a Towncar, and a Corvette sitting in my driveway. Now I'm not saying that I have ever driven that Corvette on a track because I have not. However where we live the road is loaded with hills and sharp turns, and don't think for one second that I haven't pushed that car driving it... hehehe If you are a cop I didn't do it, it was my brother... I have also been in the car when the backend stepped out and I promise you in real life it isn't as easy to catch as you might think it is. Now I have never driven that car on a track as I said before and I have never driven it at 150+ mph. Heck I doubt it would even go that fast if I wanted it too. However I do know exactly what that car feels like (handling wise) going around turns at 60+ that have signs posted for 25mph. I how it reacts/feels when I floor it and the backend starts to go loose, and I know how it feels to get on the brakes hard. Also please note I'm not a moron. We live out in the sticks and the only thing I really have to worry about hitting is a deer maybe... lol... I do not street race what so ever!!! I honestly think the people that do and risk other peoples lives to impress their friends are tards in the highest sense of the word.

With that said I know there are people that like the NTM and people that dont. DK from iRacing said that there would be HUGE changes coming and people would have to learn to drive again. I want to point out something here, and please don't take this as bragging because I'm not the fastest driver in iRacing and I most likely never will be. However I could not drive the OTM like the faster guys did. With all of the sliding to be fast, shifting gears like a madman, and basically everything that would tear a real car apart after three laps. I also want to point out that real race cars do not get driven that way either. There are many many videos of races on youtube that do not show a single road race with these types of things going on. Once I got my hands on the NTM and staying with the same driving style that I had before I'm at the front of the pack in just about every race that I have been in with it. What does that tell you?

I know it also seems that every game/sim has real drivers that claim how perfect it is. Tell me they aren't paid for it and then I might listen. Shoot if I was a driver and a game company was willing to step in and sponsor me and get my advice on what is real and what isn't. Heck I'd say everything they want to hear about how great their product is. There are also drivers that run the Corvettes in real life that say the Vette in iRacing is almost perfect. The same goes for alot of the cars except the V8 from what I heard. Something that I think may be getting left out of the loop here is weather, temp, humidity, and conditions over all. Heck go to any real track on two different days and they will drive differently than the previous day. iRacing unless I'm mistaken has one setting for these things ATM.

I want to stress again that I do not think the NTM is perfect, however I do think it's at least a big step in the right direction. I honestly think only one thing matters in all of this fuss... Is it fun or not? Most of us and I say 98% of us will never run these cars in real life in real life racing conditions so we must take the word of real drivers and what the sim/game offers us. I'm sure rFactor is good with the right "mod" as said before, but who is to say that "mod" is correct to real life terms? I really don't want this to get into a rFactor is better or iRacing is better thing. I'm sure they both have goods and bads to them, as with any game on the planet. I mean the last time I checked we were paying to do this not the other way around. So my question of "is it fun or not" is the main thing and most important.

 

[George Pilkington]

Again, Nice One Joe.
Its equal equipement. That never happens. Race your mates in equal kit and see who the fastest is.
Nice!
George

 

[Mike McCormick]

Good post Joe.

 

[Phil Hopkins]

What's the opposite of a troll? Joe! Thoughtful post, mate!

 

[William Levesque]

What kind of Corvette do you have ? Early C4 ? (You said it couldn't do 150mph)

And you MUST take the beast to the track one day, or else I'll need to steal it, track it, and bring it back to you afterward

 

[Joe Hubbard]

What kind of Corvette do you have ? Early C4 ? (You said it couldn't do 150mph)

And you MUST take the beast to the track one day, or else I'll need to steal it, track it, and bring it back to you afterward

It's just a normal Vette, nothing special really. I don't know if it would do 150 or not and to be honest I wouldn't push it that far due to the fact that I like my skin attached to me... lol... If it rolled that would be the end of the line for someone driving it...

I think this is one of the only photos I have of it.

 

[Kevin Watts]

Why is it that posts that say very little if anything at all often seem to get the most response (and I'm not talking about Bram's OP...which was a clear and fair statement of his reaction to the new update)?! I suppose that's the nature of the beast (trolls are beasts, right?).

If you look at the forum index list its easy to see why certain types of post end up here, the last post column shows the title of the thread "I don't like it anymore" its like an open invitation to the same type of people who post the same negative comments to iRacing news items on the front page.


The NTM may well have it quirks, I still think a lot of drivers (not particularly directed at anyone here) are finding it difficult because of bad habits they brought from other sims and the old iRacing tyre model. On the truck it feels fantastic and we have seen 3 and 4 wide racing that we perhaps would not have seen before. I've seen numerous video's of the HPD flying around tracks so not everyone seems to be suffering so its hard to say what is wrong and what is right but what I do know is that unlike a lot of sim developers the iRacing crew really do listen to feedback and that maybe the downtime now which is listed as "We are applying simulation bug fixes." may involve some fixes that will help some drivers who are experiencing issues.

 

[Kevin Watts]

NICE car btw Joe

 

[William Levesque]

Nice ride

1988 or something like that ? About 230hp I think

 

[Joe Hubbard]

Nice ride

1988 or something like that ? About 230hp I think

1990.

 

[Phil Hopkins]

Suuuweeeet! I like the look of that curvy tarmac in the background too!

 

[Dazmaniac]

There were several entries on his twitter, a couple of weeks ago - this was discussed and shown several times at the iRacing forums. Posters wrote about real life racing drivers subscribing to iRacing but being disappointed. Tommy Milner said the following:
- the COT was broken
- the Skippy didn't feel right.
- all in all, he was not impressed with the NTM (official release)

Other racing drivers said the feeling they got with iRacing was "too arcade" due to:
- too much sliding
- not enough grip
- aerodynamics are odd or simply don't work as they're supposed to
- tyre temps are either broken (FORD GT, eg.: first lap is the fastest lap)
- little or no tire wear

Tommy Milner is but one in a string of racing drivers who are not impressed with iRacing. :frown:

Yet he'll probably wax lyrically about NFS:Shift 2, a game that shipped with some of the worst steering wheel input ever known to man and some ropey driving physics to boot, and he was supposedly one of the drivers who had tested the game pre-release to give Slightly Mad Studios some feedback for the game.

 

[Lars Strijdonck]

In all honesty I find a bit naief form the OP to use such a topic title. It invites flames cq fanboy reactions.

Iam with Joe, very scencible post +1

 

[Mike McCormick]

Nice Vette Joe.

 

[T_Adams]

As many have stated, hand in hand with an obvious lack of grip, there is a clear lack of feeling. iRacing cars remain iRacing cars, poorly connected to the road. The preview version of the NTM fixed that, but now...

Im sad to hear this.

 

[Phil Hopkins]

Well, I wouldn't take his word for it. What was it Mark Twain said? "The rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated!"

 

[David Garcia]

Nice post Joe. Couldn´t agree more.

As a kart driver I have been for my last 8 years I can only confirm what he is saying. The same kart, the same chassis, the same engine, the same tyres, the same driver, and woooops, you reach the circuit on a cloudy and cold day and the machine is like a new one and then you have to literally brake your head trying to find out what is going wrong or why the engine doesn´t rev up, or why the chassis seems to have less grip. Then you reach the circuit next day, and everything works fine... things are not that easy as just tell what you believe or how you things should be (of course not refereing to Bram´s thread), because I am sure even a profesional race driver could not explain some things about his ride. There are a lot of diferent factors affecting the car, altitude, humidity, etc.

So in my opinion, the iRacing guys has managed to get it as close as possible to reality in what comes to racing simulations, and if they don´t change their minds and keep on working in that direction, I will be gratefull.

Apart of that, the iRating and Safety Rating makes the inmersion superb, so when you are in a race you really feel some kind of nerves wich could becompared to the tension you feel before a real race (the only thing that will never be simulated are the broken ribs :tongue. The sensation when you do a mistake, when you are hitted or when you make a podium is really nice in that sim.

About the tyre model, I think it is more a question of getting used to it at the end, that´s all. Just learn how to make it work correctly.

 

[Jack B]

Nice post Joe. Couldn´t agree more.

As a kart driver I have been for my last 8 years I can only confirm what he is saying. The same kart, the same chassis, the same engine, the same tyres, the same driver, and woooops, you reach the circuit on a cloudy and cold day and the machine is like a new one and then you have to literally brake your head trying to find out what is going wrong or why the engine doesn´t rev up, or why the chassis seems to have less grip. Then you reach the circuit next day, and everything works fine... things are not that easy as just tell what you believe or how you things should be (of course not refereing to Bram´s thread), because I am sure even a profesional race driver could not explain some things about his ride. There are a lot of diferent factors affecting the car, altitude, humidity, etc.

So in my opinion, the iRacing guys has managed to get it as close as possible to reality in what comes to racing simulations, and if they don´t change their minds and keep on working in that direction, I will be gratefull.

Apart of that, the iRating and Safety Rating makes the inmersion superb, so when you are in a race you really feel some kind of nerves wich could becompared to the tension you feel before a real race (the only thing that will never be simulated are the broken ribs :tongue. The sensation when you do a mistake, when you are hitted or when you make a podium is really nice in that sim.

About the tyre model, I think it is more a question of getting used to it at the end, that´s all. Just learn how to make it work correctly.

David, great post.

I'm not qualified to say either, but I sure do enjoy the NTM as is. The FFB seems better to me now with the added Damper controls. David Tucker of iRacing has made a ton of posts discussing the FFB and he seems to have worked really hard on making it the best he can for all types of wheels.

It seems to me the telemetry data now being output on tire temps and tire pressures for the NTM cars has caused many of the problems. The iRacing community has quite a few really bright guys, who've spent a ton of time analyzing and discussing the NTM data. Some great insights have come out of those discussions, but I'd imagine much of it would never have happened unless they had the raw data to analyze. In the past, for the OTM we didn't have tire temp and pressure data. Now we have tons of data being poured over by physics and car tech guys. Interesting stuff, but a lot of it starts getting over my head pretty quickly.

One discussion revolved around why during lockups the tire stops heating up. Logically, you'd assume the tire would heat up more during a lockup... After a few pages, one guy said, "Well, the IR sensors on the tire wouldn't be on the part of the tire getting heated up. That's on the road. The IR sensors would be measuring the top of the tire which isn't moving and isn't heating up during a lockup.... In fact, it could even be cooling down, since it's not moving...

So many things like this are being discovered. Maybe he's right, maybe he isn't, but non of that analysis would happen without on track tire temps and tire pressures being recorded by the telemetry to analyze after the session.

Another discussion was on how quickly the tire lost heat on a straight. Most thought it was losing heat too quickly until someone with real world experience chimed in on real world tests and it turns out tires lose massive amounts of heat very quickly on a single straight, depending on open wheel vs closed etc. This stuff is tricky and often it's hard to know exactly what the data should say.

Sim racers are used to looking at inside/middle/outside tire temps and we know from other sims what it should look like, but now we find out from many real world drivers/techs, that the sim world made that up and those aren't the spreads you get in real life. It just kind of became accepted, because we assumed it was "right".

The really bright guys doing this analysis seem to think that Dave is close, but the NTM needs more tweaking. Dave's as good a guy as you could have working on it, so we've got that going for us...

I'll let those guys analyze it with Atlas and Motec. I'll just drive and have fun. It feels pretty good to me, so in the end that's what I care about.

 

[Phil Hopkins]

Now we're getting some posts that say something worth reading. Very interesting, guys!

 

[Luke Chard-Maple]

Great post jack b, very valid points made there! personally i feel the new tyre model feels much more realistic than the old one, and i feel the cars are even more catchable than before, I would even go as far as saying it didnt feel very realistic to me on the OTM at all! i think the problem ppl may have is particularly with the HPD which doesn't like to go even a bit sideways! are people here getting used to it yet? Bram have you adjusted your driving style and had any luck yet?