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How to be a better driver?

Discussion in 'F1 2010 - The Game' started by neuralfraud, Dec 6, 2010.

  1. There aren't a whole lot of people asking or discussing the inner workings of why their car setups do what they do.. in fact, people in the setup discussions are pretty much talking about preference and simple statistics... but the obvious thing to me is that these are all time trial setups and numbers, and a setup that works for a car with fixed tire and fuel variables simply doesn't work for the same car when fuel and tires are being simulated.

    Why doesn't anyone post setup's for practice and qualy modes?

    Additionally, this is one question i've yet to see asked, so i'll be first.

    When driving this game, how can I tell what is causing handling problems?

    It could be any one of spring stiffness, roll bar stiffness, aero, ballast or ride height. Everyone's time trial setup seems to be very similar, but I find that they simply don't work in races.

    I'm also not a race driver so I do no instinctively know the best line to take, and I do not use the distracting racing line because I've gotten no benefit from it.

    I've gotten some feedback here that suggests braking early enough to be able to set my car up for the exit of the turn will allow me to get on the throttle sooner, and carry more speed - great advice, and that's exactly how I am approaching these tracks, but I still have significant issues that I can't seem to pinpoint.

    Examples:

    Bahrain, Turn 4 - I brake just before the 50m mark and hit the apex at 3rd gear, just barely on the kerb, but its very dicey as it can cause you to spin off, often I have a slow exit because i'm trying to be careful to not spin the car, but have no other problems like that. For this track I run a 3 ride height and 5, 6 spring stiffness, with 80% front ballast and 1,8 front,rear roll bar.

    however this is where I am confused. For the slow part of the circuit, I need a responsive car because the turns are very dramatic and it seems with a soft anti-roll, i could actually lose traction in that slow complex.. so I could go stiff roll bars and soft springs since there's quite a bit of kerb usage.. not sure, what i do know is the default "Fast" setup doesn't work.. height is too low, springs too stiff, etc.

    Another example, melbourne:

    The chicanes are a *****. It's difficult to brake for them, then turn into the chicane and exit cleanly because the difference between braking miles early, and overshooting it is tiny, so you need a car that can turn on command, get up on a kerb and not lose traction, so similar settings may apply. You also need downforce because there are a few high speed corners, and the high speed chicane.. so I may use my wing adjustment in the + position for the track, and in the - position for the straights, but I don't understand how much that setting is actually changing the wing angle/grip.

    Anyhow, I've gone back and watched some onboard videos from bahrain and melbourne this year and noted some usage of the corners, and that has helped me a bit, but over all, in bahrain i'm real slow in sector 2 and in melbourne, I'm slow in sector 3 and that's where I've made the most of my improvement.

    Dispite all of that, I can manage no better than a 2:00 at bahrain and no better than 1:30 at melbourne..I struggle to qualify mid field and I suppose that's realistic, but it's all pointless because after 5 laps of the race, the cars suddenly hulk up and speed up, whether or not the catchup.xml is present, whether or not fuel sim is on..

    If my car is braking poorly, understeering or losing traction as a result of the suspension, how can I recognize it? it all seems the same unless i'm getting spun out from a kerb.

    Thanks!
     
  2. As you've already pointed out the factors that can improve or worsen the handling of your car there's really not much more to say than: Practice practice practice. Try lowering the rear rollbar if u are having difficulties in corners. Taking the perfect line in corners at the highest speed possible will surely compensate for the little loss in acceleration on the straights. Use the wing up and down settings for the appropriate sectors. I started using this recently and it helps a lot. Be aware though that you have a limited amount of wing changes per lap. There's not much to understand about this, but much more to feel, as racing is all about feeling. Just do a couple of laps in a sector with many corners, you will probably feel u can push the car more with the wing in the up setting.

    PS: I think you can lower your ride hight on Bahrain to 1 or 2. 3 Seems to high to me. But of course if you're faster with that setting then don't change it :)
     
  3. Ok here it goes.
    All my setups (I drive only career) are derived from the fast setup from the engineer. I take this setup and soften the front of the car a bit by loosening the rollbar (1 or 2 notches) and the front springs (1 or 2 notches). The I tilt the car to the front by adding a bit of ride height to the back (one notch). Usually I tune the balance also a bit more to the back like 30/70 or 40/60 not the 20/80 the fast setup has by default.
    Such a car is still pretty fast but a bit more forgiving in the corners.
    Try it.

    my.02
    CB
     
  4. Agree with Countblue.

    Use the quick setups. Always pick the one to the far right (if dry). Then adjust the downforce, braking, ride height and 5th/6th/7th gear ratio to suit. Leave everything else AS IS.

    And believe it or not its harder to drive, but easier to race with manual gears... why? Braking for a start. Downshifting manually can save at upto 20m in stopping distance compared to auto gears. Also the ability to hold a desired gear more effectively through a bend.

    2:00 for Bahrain is a decent time if you are driving a bottom tier career car. Top tier carreer cars only reach a best of 1:57 in practice/qualifying.

    Also, generally you can tell if you are losing traction/spinning out based on the speed at which your horizon rotates. It takes a bit of time to get used to notice it... but after a while you will notice the suttle changes in speed up/slow down based on the angle of your turn. Good frame rate helps. And of course good loud audio is a great help... as you'll be able to hear the changes in engine/wheel noise as it loses traction.
     
  5. To be honast mate most of my times on the TT leaderboards were done using Engineer setup (furthest to the right) and then just change the engine to fast. These setups are not as great as people think. The only exception would be monaco. where you just change downforce to 11/9.
     
  6. i have the same question.. how to be a better driver..
     
  7. I think you should maybe try looking at your driving instead of the setups so much. The default far right set up is easily fine for Bahrain. I'm not doubting you can go faster with a tweaked set up for these tracks, but the default one is not a problem.

    Just because the car is not handling right in such a corner does not mean the set up is wrong, its most likely just your inputs. In Melbourne do you need to change the set up for the braking in the chicane or do you just need to hit the brake pedal at the right moment?

    At the end of the day its all practice and once you get into racing or following F1 I think you will naturally improve. But I think you should worry less about the set up and simply work on your driving.
     
  8. thank you little master.. will work on it..
     
  9. hehe.. i like the link..
     
  10. @ AProst That is the best link I have had the pleasure of clicking in a long time, Thank you, very informative.
     
  11. I am happy you found it usefull :)
     
  12. One of the best and most down to earth, informative reads ive ever read on racing thanks for sharing have learnt a lot. Thanks
     
  13. This is funny to me because that page has been on my the main bookmark bar of my chrome browser for a few months now. Indeed, a good site.
     
  14. An excellent site. I have a coupole of Carroll Smith books including the one highlighted at that link 'Drive to Win'. Really good read and I think it's time for me to get it out again.
     
  15. Welp, I took a few inputs from the suggestions here and managed to do quite better than previously, though it took a few tries ;)

    First, it's a wet race so I used the highest-range "Adapatble" setting and from there did the following adjustment to ensure a predictable handling car:

    Front wing: 4/4
    Brakes:
    51/49 Medium
    Balance:
    60/40 front bias, 4/7 swaybar
    Suspension:
    height: 3/4
    springs: 5/6, or 6/7 not sure ;p
    Gearing:
    5th: -1
    6th: -2
    7th: -2
    Alignment:
    -1.30, -3, -0.09, whatever rear toe is

    That helped keep the car stable I think, and picked up some time for the brief stint I was able to run on slicks, overall, I managed to finish 3rd thanks to pit strategy and not flying off a corner and losing 10 seconds ;)

    I paid closer attention to the dynamic racing lines and tried not to "over drive" in the corners and lose traction which probably ended up making me slower.

    As far as noting how quickly the horizon around me is rotating, that does sort of help although sometimes its very subtle.

    now what I dont understand is how there can be a drying racing line if my visor is still being splashed with falling rain?

    everything tells me its too wet for slicks, but I pit after a few laps and theres no problems.. Sky doesnt always clear up, and in fact the last 10 laps of the race were on the option tires, while still appearing to be raining, but WTH everyone else was on slicks=/


    Thanks!
     
  16. A few things to mention regarding your experience: first thing would be to ask you what track this is from, for unless you stated specifically and I overlooked it, it is missing. Secondly, you stated in your original thread posting that you do not use the driving line, yet here you state that you did use it, so that befuddles me somewhat. If you want to get better, you have to turn that off. If it has to do with learning a track, then go into time trial or offline grand prix and mess around without worrying about impacting your career mode. (Honestly however, I would steer clear of time-trial as the settings are not realistic to what you'll encounter in a race, so your best bet would be to do testing in your practice time of career mode and simply pause the game and restart the session if you run out of time and still want to practice/learn more about your car, or have made a mistake that could be a detriment to your career/race weekend's progression.

    As for the drying line, that is - and I'm saying this without knowing how the programmers worked it specifically - the road is going to create a dry(er) line even if there is light precipitation. The heat created by the cars on track will cause the rain to dry instantaneously. During this year's Turkish Grand Prix there was an ominous storm cloud approaching and rain was imminent, yet it was not necessarily assured that a driver may need to stop for intermediates/full-wets because, as noted by Martin, Eddie & David, the rain would almost evaporate before even hitting the track because of the track temperature.

    I am not a racer either, and I'm very new to the sport, just starting to follow F1 this year during the Hungarian GP. That being said I've learned a lot quickly, read almost anything I can, watched almost all the races from earlier this year and taken a lot away from it. In regards to bettering your driving I'll give you the 2 best tips that come to mind:

    -use the entire width of the track
    -slow in, fast out (cliche as ever, but it makes the difference in a fast lap and a crash lap)

    Hope that all comes as constructive criticism, and since I'm getting lengthier than I first intended, I'll leave it at that.
     
  17. In this game the drying line works by giving you more grip in the wet as it is dry hence it's name. Now toe in and out is this. Look down at your feet and imagine they are wheel's |-|. now rotate/swivel your feet inwards together /-\ then out \-/ that is toe in and out the way the wheels point so to speak I think this primarily helps cornering but can increase tyre ware dramatically.
     
  18. Dear Friends
    I need your help too.
    I'm in carreer mode and i use tracion control,i usually use the engeneer setup on dry amost allways the 2° from the right, then i tune something.
    My big problem is that i can't feel wheels on the track and it happens to me that i'm allways too long and never catch the curb of slow corners.
    This issue is particular in Malaysia on first corner wich is menageble and in the corner that brings on the opposide straight of box straight wich is a fast corner that close to the end
    I never catch this crub, what should i do, i didn't have abs and using pedal setting dead zone 20 saturation 80.
    Breaking is became an issue i and in real life as an ex driver it was my best qualty.
    What i miss ??
    Thanks so much sorry for my english.
    Cheers
    Jack
     
  19. Are you using an xbox controller or a wheel? This makes - in my opinion - a huge difference. Personally I find it almost impossible to correct myself using a controller when TCS is off. I use a wheel however, and it is so much easier to drive, allowing for a better feel of the car and it is not uncommon to correct rather significant mistakes while driving.