• "Mwoah" - Kimi Räikkönen
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Dear Guest. Follow RaceDepartment on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Twitch, Steam and YouTube.

How is gear shifting technique modded?

Discussion in 'rFactor 2' started by Stenne, Aug 30, 2015.

  1. Stenne

    Stenne
    Premium

    Messages:
    294
    Ratings:
    +278
    Hi
    I have a G27 Wheel with 3 pedals and an H-box and I have the ambition to drive different mods as realistic as possible. One thing that I find difficult to find out is what the modder has intended in terms of how gear shifting is supposed to be done. Unfortunally there are seldom any information on this in the description of the mod.

    Of course I can find out what kind of gearbox/driveline the real world model has and go for that. But after downloaded and driving quite a large number of mods (without any driving aids) I've noticed that in some cars there are factors influencing the gear shifting set within the mod.
    For example, in Lola T280 you have to lift the throttle on upshifting for the next gear to engage. In some mods one can clearly see that when driving as if it was a sequential-semiautomaic gearbox (i.e. as the modern F1 cars) with full throttle on upshift the gearbox goes to neutral in between and the engine revs up before the next gear is engaged, which calls for a throttle lift. In some mods (SIMCO_RCM2014, Spec Miata) there is even several options for gear change in the Tuning/Upgrade page in the main menu. I've extracted the [rcm_2014_Upgrades.ini] file where it's obvious that there are settings available for the modder to assign specific properties related to gear shifting technique.

    The excellent tool CarStat extracts a lot of information from the mod files but not this. I have also gone through the JSON files and searched different forums but has'nt found anything useful, but perhaps I've missed something.

    So, my question is. How can I find out for a specific mod wheather the modder has set any properties related to gear shifting or if the mod is "open" for my own choice of technique?

    Grateful for any help.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Stenne

    Stenne
    Premium

    Messages:
    294
    Ratings:
    +278
    Had a further look into the mod-files and found out that the HDV-file can be opened as a text file.
    Under the section [DRIVELINE] there are a number of settings related to shifting technique.
    The only one that make some kind of sense to me is the one below.

    [DRIVELINE]
    SemiAutomatic=1 // Whether throttle and clutch are operated automatically ((like an F1 car)
    .

    So, a complementary question. Are there any other settings in the HDV file that could give a clue to which shifting technique is intended by the modder?

    Again, grateful for any help.
     
  3. Alistair McKinley

    Alistair McKinley
    Premium

    Messages:
    39
    Ratings:
    +53
    I'm sorry to bump a two year old thread but I just bought rFactor 2 a couple of days ago and have the same question:
    How do I know how to shift the cars in rFactor 2 properly (like they're driven IRL)?
    Automobilista offers an information on the loading screen, so I know how I am supposed to shift but in rFactor 2 I haven't found any info yet.
    Can someone please help me?
     
  4. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins

    Messages:
    504
    Ratings:
    +148
    rF2 doesn't have the sophisticated drive line programming that AMS has. Yet. I am sure it will come some day--we've been waiting five years for it already. A bit embarrassing that it does not have it and you can shift clutchless in any car when other aspects of rF2 are so great.
     
  5. Alistair McKinley

    Alistair McKinley
    Premium

    Messages:
    39
    Ratings:
    +53
    Thank you for your detailed reply.
    It's very embarrassing, indeed!
    I thought I'd ruin the transmission if I change gears inaccurately. :-(
    But I will just continue shifting the way I think that fits a specific car.
     
  6. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins

    Messages:
    504
    Ratings:
    +148
    Good idea to practise using the clutch "properly" so when we finally get the accurate simulation, you won't have to unlearn any technique :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Alistair McKinley

    Alistair McKinley
    Premium

    Messages:
    39
    Ratings:
    +53
    And it's because in AC, AMS and RaceRoom you have to use the correct method - more or less, unless you use paddle shift in the first place or you like to shift with h-pattern and clutch in every car no matter which gear box it has.
    I hope that Sudio397 will implement gear box damage (and everything else that comes along with incorrect shifting).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Emery

    Emery

    Messages:
    1,091
    Ratings:
    +310
    Racing transmissions (Hewland) don't need the clutch. Watch this driver lift to shift up, but not clutch, with Hewland H-pattern. Not even heel & toe on the downshifts as far as I can tell (no throttle blip, knees don't move).

    Edit: this is not to say a damage model isn't desired, just that it won't & shouldn't work in the manner that most people believe it should.

     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
  9. Gijs van Elderen

    Gijs van Elderen
    Premium

    Messages:
    4,603
    Ratings:
    +2,376
    Just some tech talk: :)

    synchronized engagement gearbox


    Most modern cars are fitted with a synchronized engagement gearbox from the factory to deliver smooth, reliable, and quiet operation, which is paramount for a daily driven vehicle. Synchromesh transmissions operate using a collar that applies force to a cone-shaped clutch attached to the gear. The collar allows the shaft speed of the gearset and the input shaft to be matched or “synched” to the output shaft prior to the collar locking into place and initiating a shift.

    Synchromesh gear engagement is best at lower engine speeds and requires a bit more time compared to a dog box, to facilitate shifts. Limitations of synchromesh gearboxes in high-performance applications include slow upshifting at very high engine speeds—e.g. 9,000 rpm—and slow downshifting, as well as the need to fully use the clutch.


    Dog Box Transmissions

    Dog engagement is normally used in racing applications where fast, precise shifting is needed. Dog gear engagement is facilitated by numerous large teeth (dogs) that mate into matching openings machined into the opposite surface of the drive gear. Unlike the synchro engagement, there is no synchronizing mechanism to assist in equalizing speed. Ideal gear selection—e.g. minimal clashing and wear of the dog rings—is achieved by quick shifts; the motto here is “the quicker the better”, so bang away.

    There is no depressing the clutch in the conventional sense like with the synchromesh transmission. A momentary break in engine load until the shift is achieved by a quick throttle blip or clutch depression. The driver will then experience the dog ring engaging with the next gear and the throttle can be reapplied. With practice this can be done in milliseconds. In fact, a driver can preload the stick shift in the direction of the next shift, and then when he either blips the throttle or clutch the shifter will quickly click in the desired gear.

    With all else equal, dog-engagement gears are much stronger than synchro-engagement gears because without needing to make space for synchro rings, the gears themselves can be made thicker. The number of dogs (teeth) and the size of the openings determine the window of opportunity that the dogs have to engage during the shift event. Rings with a smaller number of teeth provide a more efficient, smoother shift quality. The downsides to this easier engagement are increased noise and abruptness on the shift.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins

    Messages:
    504
    Ratings:
    +148
    Despite all that has been said above (true), you still need the clutch to get moving from rest and often going in or out of first gear (rarely used on a race track, but seems to be used regularly in the car in the video) is still smoother with the clutch than without.

    And I think he needed the clutch at 10:30 ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017