How Far Behind are Red Bull?

[Andrew Harper]

Yes they are behind a little, I don't think the gap is as large as it first appears but as we all know Red Bull are one of the few teams that are able to claw back time better than others. The sales of little cans probably helps a lot!

I think @burrito is right though, to blame the engine is easy to do but compared to Honda, Renault have moved mountains to improve the way they have. It's not always about total horsepower with these engines but the way they deliver and recharge their power and that I think is what took Renault the time to learn. Reliability as well of course is a factor.

The only other factor is both Massa and Verstappen changed to the Supersofts on their pitstop. This worked very well for them and allowed them to push pretty hard, so the picture is maybe not 100% clear.

However, Melbourne is not much of an aero circuit so we'll see how the cars (not just Red Bull) perform in China and Bahrain.

 

[InsaneOzzie]

The halo isn't designed to stop a freak accident like Bianchi's. It wouldn't do anything if a driver were to crash into a crane. It's there to stop debris like that which killed Justin Wilson.

Agreed, but I feel it would depend on impact speed, Bianchi's momentum on impact was enough to shift the 4tonne crane nearly 1mtr, even a full spec roll cage probably wouldn't of offered a great deal of protection in those circumstances. At low speed the halo should save lives, if it's ever implemented.
Justins accident was also a freak occurrence IMO, and the chances of another driver being impacted by a piece of flying debris from another car as in Justins case, whilst not impossible, is pretty remote. Although I feel there is a higher risk of this type of accident occurring in Indycars than F1, due to the nature of Indy car oval racing.
Cheers

 

[grahamw]

I find it hard to believe that every one is so critical of Verstappen's driving isn't it the exact way thing Schumacher did when he won so many world championships. Whilst I am all for safety I think we have to remember if we dumb down F1 much more they might as well run on rails.

It would be good to see Red Bull back competing with the top two but I suspect it's a way off yet however I think may be everyone is making rather too much of the great Ferrari comeback surely in reality it was Mercedes who lost the race rather than any stunning driving or performance by Ferrari.

 

[BhZ]

People who do not like Max always say the same......
If Max had misbehave the FIA did have punished him..

I think it is more the problem for people that they can not stand it that a young man is knocking on the door of the sleeping kindom for years of F1 the kindom from Vettel, Hamilton, Raikonen...Some things change and new tallent stand up

Max makes the borring F1 shine
and I think there is still more tallents to come

I wouldn't rely too much on the FIA tbh. Anyway, i used to be a fan of Verstappen while he was at Toro Rosso and i was happy for him at Barcelona. But with time he gained confidence and with confidence he became arrogant...and that's something i hate. I don't like Hamilton for the same reason. The kid can drive and if things stays as they are, he will become a World Champion in the future (imho not in Red Bull). Seeing him driving is fun, seeing him during interviews kills me. And don't tell me "every champion has been arrogant..." cause i don't care, you can be a champion without being an *******.

 

[Mark Aalberts]

Renault fall back on the old MGU-K from last year (5kg) heavier and probably less performance not sure about that because they where having troubles with it in winter testing. They are an estimated 50 to 60hp short so basically nothing gained since last year. One of the most biggest differences is the extra power Ferrari and Mercedes can use during Qualification. I don't see Renault making that up at any point but you can Always pray for it to happen.

Another problem is that the RB13 has a small operating window, they say its hard to setup and behaves unpredictable at time. I'm sure Newey and Co will fix their chassis, and a big engine update by Renault is planned for Canada. As the story goes right now, time loss is 50/50 chassis/engine. I expect them to close in pretty quickly but as long Ferrari and Mercedes have the extra power I don't see them higher up the grid than 5th and 6th. Halfway season we should have this discussion again.

 

[JorritVD]

Will be interesting to see wat will happen during the season. RBR has a relatively simple car compared to the rest (on the side of aero department). Their base look solid already. They can easier improve on their specific areas as their car is simple compared to others, as other teams (Ferrari / Mercedes) have more complex cars and also more variables to look at when they update the car. I think on this side RBR has a big advantage, same as their construction time of parts is the most short of all teams as well compared to others (they build the car one day before the start of the test agenda).

Yes, in quali RBR has an extra disadvantage as Mercedes, and now also Ferrari, seems to have a quali engine setting. The gap was 1.3 seconds in Q3, but i think Max not maximized his lap.

In the race Max finished 28 seconds behind Vettel, after slowing down the last few laps to not take any risks with brakes. So it could be less than 28 seconds, but Vetter could also go a bit quicker i think. So 28 seconds is quite realistic now, and that was in 57 laps. So 28 devided by 57 is around 0,5 seconds a lap. So i think this is quite a realistic gap.

RBR still has room to improve with this car with its engine upgrades, aero updates and chassis updates. I would be very suprised if RBR will not be closer to the front and not challege for wins this season. Though a championship looks a step to far, but in this case it is important to maximize the results even in this conditions, so the crash and dnf of Ricciardo should not happen again. Also for every tenth Mercedes/Ferrari go faster (as they will update to), RBR need to do two tenths every time.

 

[muzikant]

I wouldn't rely too much on the FIA tbh. Anyway, i used to be a fan of Verstappen while he was at Toro Rosso and i was happy for him at Barcelona. But with time he gained confidence and with confidence he became arrogant...and that's something i hate. I don't like Hamilton for the same reason. The kid can drive and if things stays as they are, he will become a World Champion in the future (imho not in Red Bull). Seeing him driving is fun, seeing him during interviews kills me. And don't tell me "every champion has been arrogant..." cause i don't care, you can be a champion without being an *******.

Whats your problem? Max is not arrogant. I mean In what kind of way arrogant?
He is not a party animal.. or sun glasses boy by interviews... I am tired of bulshit about Max

 

[BhZ]

Whats your problem? Max is not arrogant. I mean In what kind of way arrogant?
He is not a party animal.. or sun glasses boy by interviews... I am tired of bulshit about Max

I guess each one of us can have an opinion. No reason to attack me personally asking me "what's my problem", don't you think?

 

[muzikant]

Good to hear you have not a problem

But what you mean with arrogant?? In what kind of way?

 

[Jiltjes]

Hype or not


His name is Max

A little respect please for Max

I was merely quoting the original text, which said `the teenager finished sixth`. So, I think I was showing respect
#medutchalso #prowdasapeacock

 

[Deleted member 113561]

How else are they, the drivers, suppose to make a pass with all that dirty air, one of the only options is to be somewhat aggressive as Max was when he 1st steered the RBR, I agree he was a little extreme at first, but it was exiting to see.
I think you will find he has matured substantially as far as his race craft goes, and lets not forget he is still a teenager and teens tend to be fearless.
Your statement that, "one day he will kill a driver" is absurd, I fail to understand how you came to this conclusion, if anything he may kill himself, but I doubt that even this would occur due to the level of safety in the F1 mono-cock chassis design.

So you value an overtake / entertainment over life / crashes? just wow
Other drivers can restrain themselves also and still pass other people ... this is just a lame excuse of yours

There were a lot of moves, which were straight out dangerous, to the extreme sometimes (see Spa)

19.5 = teenager? ... he is clearly an adult ... and age is no excuse for such behaviour

That doesn't mean its impossible to kill someone, something still can hit your head and kill you / end your career ... good examples: 2015 Jules Bianchi or 2015 Justin Wilson or 2008 Felipe Massa or or or

People who do not like Max always say the same......
If Max had misbehave the FIA did have punished him..

I think it is more the problem for people that they can not stand it that a young man is knocking on the door of the sleeping kindom for years of F1 the kindom from Vettel, Hamilton, Raikonen...Some things change and new tallent stand up

Max makes the borring F1 shine
and I think there is still more tallents to come

Youre wrong - rather see it like you're a Max fan and just ignore his dangerous driving
FIA didn't intervene a lot of times, even it was clearly one drivers fault or bad sportsmanship ...
Stewards are often inconsistent with decisions - just compare the incidents over past 10 years and their Steward results ... recently example: Magnussen crashing into the side of Ericsson ... that was a joke

For me that with the talents is also not true ... I love when they mix up the field, we had some great aggressive drivers in the last 10 years ... but only very few crossed certain lines ...

F1 doesn't need more aggressive drivers, it needs aero regulation changes, so the cars make less dirty air

Whats your problem? Max is not arrogant. I mean In what kind of way arrogant?
He is not a party animal.. or sun glasses boy by interviews... I am tired of bulshit about Max

He is very arrogant - not to mention his father - we won't forget 2016 driver swap ... which was clearly of money / political reasons ... there was skill-side no reason to prefer Verstappen over Sainz or to get rid of Kvyat

@muzikant Could you please stop attack people here?!

 

[InsaneOzzie]

this is just a lame excuse of yours
Haahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
If you say so

 

[muzikant]

So you value an overtake / entertainment over life / crashes? just wow
Other drivers can restrain themselves also and still pass other people ... this is just a lame excuse of yours

There were a lot of moves, which were straight out dangerous, to the extreme sometimes (see Spa)

19.5 = teenager? ... he is clearly an adult ... and age is no excuse for such behaviour

That doesn't mean its impossible to kill someone, something still can hit your head and kill you / end your career ... good examples: 2015 Jules Bianchi or 2015 Justin Wilson or 2008 Felipe Massa or or or


Youre wrong - rather see it like you're a Max fan and just ignore his dangerous driving
FIA didn't intervene a lot of times, even it was clearly one drivers fault or bad sportsmanship ...
Stewards are often inconsistent with decisions - just compare the incidents over past 10 years and their Steward results ... recently example: Magnussen crashing into the side of Ericsson ... that was a joke

For me that with the talents is also not true ... I love when they mix up the field, we had some great aggressive drivers in the last 10 years ... but only very few crossed certain lines ...

F1 doesn't need more aggressive drivers, it needs aero regulation changes, so the cars make less dirty air

He is very arrogant - not to mention his father - we won't forget 2016 driver swap ... which was clearly of money / political reasons ... there was skill-side no reason to prefer Verstappen over Sainz

@muzikant Could you please stop attack people here?!

People attack Max for nothing, that`s my opinion!!
Say it one more time because I folow Max for manny years Max is not Arrogant ;-)

He has a strong mind under big pressure that is his strong combination.
People say quick things.. And dont see the whole story of Max what I say... somebody is knocking on the kindom of F1.. if you like it or not

 

[muzikant]

http://www.planetf1.com/news/brawn-dreams-of-more-verstappens-in-f1/