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How do you get rid of inside locking?

Discussion in 'Stock Car Extreme' started by Alex McRacing, Nov 3, 2015.

  1. Alex McRacing

    Alex McRacing
    Premium Member

    Whenever I use the F-Extreme I always get inside front locking when I start to turn in under braking. I've tried moving the brake bias back and I just get rear inside locking. Is it the Anti Roll Bar I need to adjust? Or something else?
    (This existed before the update btw so don't worry :p)
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  2. On most formula cars, you have to be very subtle with your trail braking(turning in while still braking).

    It is usually taught to first brake in a straight line and then turn in, and this is at the base of the driving style you should have when driving a GT3 or Formula car. Except a few corners(ex. the penultimate turn at Malaysia or the turn after the chicanes at Bahrain) this technique should make you fast and consistent.

    Once you master this, you'll be able to maybe start trail vraking, but most of the time it won't gain you any time.

    So yeah, it always existed and is expected, just try to brake more in a straight line. It could have been that you had ABS activated before the update and now you turned it off.

    Hope it helped :)
  3. Alex McRacing

    Alex McRacing
    Premium Member

    Thanks for your help but I always had ABS off and I've struggled with this even before the update and only in this car. Not the other Formula Cars. I do know how to trail brake because I'm fine with all the other cars. The problem is that when I am trail braking know matter how little I brake the inside front/rear locks up. Like at Turn 10 (final right hander of lap) at Interlagos, I brake probably not even 5% and the inside still locks up, the car still turns pretty much ok but I'm worried that when they bring tire flat spots to GSC, I'll get them all the time
  4. Mm I see. I'll try and drive a couple of laps around Interlagos with the FE and I'll report back.

    EDIT: Just ran a couple of laps, running default setup with BBias at F:59 and R:41(I just prefer to have brake bias towards the front) and I honestly didn't find any problems. I don't really trail brake through that turn though, I just brake and then turn in, with the line I'm taking I don't find the need to trail brake.

    But then again, that's probably down to driving style. I honestly can't think of aything else off the top of my mind. Sorry :(
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2015
  5. Yves Larose

    Yves Larose
    Premium Member

    @Alex McRacing

    you lock up the front inside wheel in that corner (T10 at Interlagos) cause the right side of the car is pretty much unloaded meaning that there is not much weight on that wheel so i wouln't worry too much about flat spotting. in real life that kind of wheel locking doesn't result in flat spotting the tyres but if your looking at a solution since the corner is pretty much a slow corner you can try to play with the ARB, you can stiffen the front or stiffen the rear or both and see if it get ride of the locking. you can also try different racing line to reduce the weight transfert to the left side which should result in not locking the front right wheel.
  6. Alex McRacing

    Alex McRacing
    Premium Member

    No worries, thanks for taking the time to investigate :thumbsup:
  7. Alex McRacing

    Alex McRacing
    Premium Member

    Thanks for the info, I'll give it a go :thumbsup:
  8. Slalom823

    RDTCC S10 Champion Premium Member

    Wouldn't you want to soften the arb?
  9. Niels_at_home

    Reiza Studios

    Locking brakes is not solved by changing anti roll bars. Anti roll bars will change the under / over steer behavior, and they shouldn't be adjusted for a brake problem! You just have to be very careful entering corners. For every % of braking you do, you have to remove an equal % of steering.

    At the end of a brake zone as you're turning in, there should be almost no brake pedal left. Have you checked telemetry? Brake curves on these cars should be an almost perfect sawtooth. Slam on, instantly slowly release all the way to 0% And any excessive steering inputs during this will result in inside fronts locking up real easy..

    Its pretty hard to drive these cars properly, especially with most 'soft' game pedals!
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  10. Thinking this through:
    To get less weight on the outside wheels, you could soften the car up and the car will roll more, ideally more grip on those inside tyres as you turn in.
    Shift more weight to those fronts under braking by stiffening slow bump at the front and softening the slow rebound at the rear.

    Don't do both at the same time, you'll never know which works better. Like Niels said, check your braking trace and make sure you can go hard and heavy at the outset so you take advantage of all that high speed downforce pushing those tyres down. But not TOO hard and heavy. Don't go from 0 -> 100% in 10 millisseconds, but more like 25 milliseconds. No, you can't actually count milliseconds in your head, but it more of a roll of your foot all the way down than a stomp.
  11. Niels_at_home

    Reiza Studios

    First off, nothing (well....) is as complicated as vehicle dynamics, so my thoughts are by no means the absolute truth, but here they are anyway! :)

    Weight transfer is not related how soft or how hard the suspension is. With the stadium supertruck there is so much suspension movement that the softer suspension actually increases weight transfer because the center of gravity moves significantly to the outside. Anything meant to go circuit racing has no real change in total weight transfer when changing the suspension stiffness.

    What you can do with this fixed amount of weight transfer, in cornering, is deciding how much of that transfer is taken by the front tires and how much by the rear tires. The more the rear end takes (by stiffening springs and / or anti roll) the more oversteery the car will get. Or you can do the opposite, softening the front.

    Sure you could reduce the front axle weight transfer, but by definition, the rear transfer increases as a result of this, as does your oversteer. So doing this may perhaps have a slight effect on inside front tire locking, but its most likely to have a bigger (negative) effect on handling. Assuming at least you found the setup to be nicely neutral except for that brake lock issue. :)

    Dampers on most racing cars are also quite marginal in effect most of the time. The front suspension may only move 5mm or 10mm under braking, the rear may rise 10 or 20mm, with a stiff suspension this all happens quickly and that means dampers quickly stop having anything to do with weight transfer and they just continue to dampen the bumps on the track.

    I've struggled to ever really notice a difference in damping on billiard table car handling. It really doesn't do anything in stiff race cars during transitions. In my experience, stiffer dampers act much like stiffer springs and anti roll bars, but then for when going over bumps. So they certainly play a role in the car handling, but they don't really change much during weight transfer.

    As our legs aren't lightning fast, you can pretty much stomp on the pedal and it would take a tenth or so in my limited experience to get that peak force. Only on really soft cars, where in this 1 tenth the weight hasn't transferred front yet, you may lock the brakes as the braking is done sooner than the tire load arriving at the front.

    So while there is some truth to some of what you say, in practice it barely applies to these modern stiff downforce racing cars! :) .. I think so anyway! :)
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