Have Your Say: Career Mode - Must Have or a Distraction?

[paracletus]

Have fun debating folks

Never tried that, don't know what it is.
Sometimes do try those "challenge" things in AC where you try to get a good time, not bad.

Other than that, all the challenge required is one race at time and try to stay on the black stuff.
Cheers.

 

[Wolf_XII]

I like a good or a decent career mode, as a good one adds to the immersion, and I've always been a fan of immersion.

Even in old Falcon 4.0, the combat flightsim, yeah I'm originally a flightsimmer by trade I did like the small videos that were a bit like the evening news in the Falcon 4.0 sim, yeah they were the same ones over and over but they gave a bit more immersion to the campaign. It wasn't just a text message, that China has joined the War on the Korean Peninsula, but something more like IRL.
Something with a little more atmosphere.

That's why I like the F1 2017 Career Mode, as it is IMHO the best of the bunch right now, it captures the essence of F1, the R&D, gives you more depth in the game, by managing your car and engines and adds a lot of atmosphere by having you sit in the pit garage to make changes, making you able to drive out and having the full grids, and those characters.

At the same time it doesn't make you grind for your cars to use in MP or other singleplayer events, you can still use them.
It just gives you another option with more immersion.

And it's in a way a more "realistic" one, where you are the character and don't play another character like Ryan McKane

It's something that as an option all racing games and sims could benefit from, as an option, as it would broaden the appeal without dumbing down.

I rather liked the Pcars 1 Career mode, as it was similar in not locking any cars, and giving you tons of events to drive other cars aside from the series you were driving in, but all of them being optional, which means you could avoid those that you really disliked, like Ruapuna with LMP900's in my case, sorry but that track+Car combination just doesn't work!

However those events sometimes let you find out new things and sometimes you learned that some things you didn't pick the first time 'round can actually be rather enjoyable, like the Euro Road C cup, which made me appreciate the Lancher Evo VI TME over the IX and the X. (Much more nimble, nippy and fun to drive.)

The downside is, a Career mode like in F1 2017 is a lot of work.

And yeah if I don't have that much time, and sometimes it takes me years to finish a career mode, but I like having the option. (haven't finished mine in Pcars 1 yet either.)

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

And it's in a way a more "realistic" one, where you are the character and don't play another character like Ryan McKane

Now you reminded me that I never got to the last tier in TOCA Race Driver 1... Gotta find that disc again now!

 

[Wolf_XII]

Now you reminded me that I never got to the last tier in TOCA Race Driver 1... Gotta find that disc again now!

Yeah me neither, and I did that.....and it wasn't pretty.....
And I don't mean that in a graphical sense, but getting it to work properly and well with a wheel is.......a bit annoying.

I gave up after a while, and enjoyed me other ye olde timey project......getting GTR to run again!

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

Yeah me neither, and I did that.....and it wasn't pretty.....
And I don't mean that in a graphical sense, but getting it to work properly and well with a wheel is.......a bit annoying.

I gave up after a while, and enjoyed me other ye olde timey project......getting GTR to run again!

Back then I used my PS-controller, so I have to do that again, I tried using a wheel on #2 or #3, that was an awful experience. I've thought about getting GPL up and running again, I still have unfinished business on the GPLRank.

On topic though. I like career-modes that's done good. Either if it is like F1 2017 with a proper R&D system, reliability issues and more (I don't have the game, just read about it). Or if it is like V-Rally 3, where the teams strength changed (based on last years team championship, so it wasn't randomly fluctuating, but still, it was something), good drivers could end up in bad teams, but drag that team forward, and vice-versa. Test-drives to get a contract with a different team, some pre-scripted banter. It was a great experience.

On the other side you got Grand Prix 3 - I really like the championship mode there, with proper statistics after each race, throughout the season etc. No need for a career mode there.
With that being said, there is a thing called Championship Manager for GP3, where you can run pre-qual, you can change drivers between races and more. They have also included a career-mode style thing there, with team interest, contracts etc. there, so you could do it.

Career modes that's added "because we need it", and that have little interesting things are pointless - and they won't even get the pointless trophy.

 

[arniesan]

When I spend my hard earned income on a track racing sim/game, I want what I want and not what other people might want.
It is therefore not a crime to feel a bit miffed if I get a load of extra stuff; like Career Mode, or Achievements etc, as they will never be of interest to me, when I am playing a track racing sim.
I know the shout is, "you can ignore them, you don't have to play them," but the danger is, ( as is happening ), that all track racing games will end up being the same and that is not a good thing.
Why do many of us still play GPL or GP2,3,4 and a few others...why is that?...maybe it is because we like choice for one thing; modern track racing sim's are taking that away from us, not giving us choice, as is claimed.
Hard core track racing simmers are a niche in the gaming world; that is not a crime; it is what we like and what we hope for when we dole out our hard earned cash ( pension in my case )
Reiza Studios latest sim,( AMS ) is hanging on to "old school," but since releasing their sim's on Steam have had to succumb to Achievements, they get by with a Championship mode instead of a Career mode.
I have a horrible feeling that their new sim' Reiza 17/18, ( name not decided yet ), will be forced into just being another AC, under a different name...not much choice there.

 

[redt]

Every racing game should have a proper career mode. It's the best way to play offline.
.

This sums up my view perfectly.Some games need it more than others but, especially for casuals/console gamers it gives the game more purpose. Career doesn't need to be like a RPG story, but immersion and how it's implemented can make or break it.

 

[Damage Inc]

When I spend my hard earned income on a track racing sim/game, I want what I want and not what other people might want.
It is therefore not a crime to feel a bit miffed if I get a load of extra stuff; like Career Mode, or Achievements etc, as they will never be of interest to me, when I am playing a track racing sim.
I know the shout is, "you can ignore them, you don't have to play them," but the danger is, ( as is happening ), that all track racing games will end up being the same and that is not a good thing.
Why do many of us still play GPL or GP2,3,4 and a few others...why is that?...maybe it is because we like choice for one thing; modern track racing sim's are taking that away from us, not giving us choice, as is claimed.
Hard core track racing simmers are a niche in the gaming world; that is not a crime; it is what we like and what we hope for when we dole out our hard earned cash ( pension in my case )
Reiza Studios latest sim,( AMS ) is hanging on to "old school," but since releasing their sim's on Steam have had to succumb to Achievements, they get by with a Championship mode instead of a Career mode.
I have a horrible feeling that their new sim' Reiza 17/18, ( name not decided yet ), will be forced into just being another AC, under a different name...not much choice there.

Achievements you can just ignore, in other games I sometimes bother with them because it makes me play a game a different way and often it's eye opening. But in Assetto I've hardly got any Achievements because that's not part of the game I'm bothering with.

I think the fear you have is not "career" mode per se, but rather the "locking" of tiers/cars/tracks linked to career mode progression. I think you'll find most would agree that is a bad thing, all but the most ardent GT and Forza fans don't like locked cars and tracks. Outside of GT and Forza style games I don't see PC/console games going that far. Neither PC1+2 nor AC lock cars and tracks, all content is available. PC2 only locks upper tiers in career mode and nowhere else.

 

[arniesan]

Achievements you can just ignore, in other games I sometimes bother with them because it makes me play a game a different way and often it's eye opening. But in Assetto I've hardly got any Achievements because that's not part of the game I'm bothering with.

I think the fear you have is not "career" mode per se, but rather the "locking" of tiers/cars/tracks linked to career mode progression. I think you'll find most would agree that is a bad thing, all but the most ardent GT and Forza fans don't like locked cars and tracks. Outside of GT and Forza style games I don't see PC/console games going that far. Neither PC1+2 nor AC lock cars and tracks, all content is available. PC2 only locks upper tiers in career mode and nowhere else.

Keep it simple is my shout actually, not fear.
Why add all these extras, when, as you say, only a small minority welcome them.
Track racing sim's, ( by nature ), never get completed, each and every race is different; multi or single.
If you are a true blue track racing, ( hard core type if you like ), then all you need are the cars, the tracks, good garage facilities, good FFB, Physics, Tyre model etc, etc.
Such things as weather, night/day, are welcome of course...but not essential for a race.
I saw a post somewhere recently ( forget where ), whereby the poster was complaining that he/she could not finish the sim', ( AMS ) because the Achievements were broken...finish the sim'?
This is the danger imo, that all track racing simulations will end up being clones of each other; full of none essentials for plain and simple racing.
Like I said in my other post...why do so many of us still play the oldies...updated to HD in many cases thankfully.

 

[Damage Inc]

Keep it simple is my shout actually, not fear.
Why add all these extras, when, as you say, only a small minority welcome them.
Track racing sim's, ( by nature ), never get completed, each and every race is different; multi or single.
If you are a true blue track racing, ( hard core type if you like ), then all you need are the cars, the tracks, good garage facilities, good FFB, Physics, Tyre model etc, etc.
Such things as weather, night/day, are welcome of course...but not essential for a race.
I saw a post somewhere recently ( forget where ), whereby the poster was complaining that he/she could not finish the sim', ( AMS ) because the Achievements were broken...finish the sim'?
This is the danger imo, that all track racing simulations will end up being clones of each other; full of none essentials for plain and simple racing.
Like I said in my other post...why do so many of us still play the oldies...updated to HD in many cases thankfully.

Not really disagreeing with you, but new blood has to be enticed in and achievements are a big thing now. I doubt it takes much programming to do and certainly not by anyone involved in Ai/physics/car modelling/track modelling. It's probably done by the GUI people.

And like I say what if an achievement made the player try a car/track combo they would never have thought of trying, then once they did try it they actually liked it?!! Of course the trick is to do "good" achievements. Either way though career and achievements arn't linked. A good career mode can actually breath some life into what can actually be quite a soulless experience (for some).

 

[Wolf_XII]

Not really disagreeing with you, but new blood has to be enticed in and achievements are a big thing now. I doubt it takes much programming to do and certainly not by anyone involved in Ai/physics/car modelling/track modelling. It's probably done by the GUI people.

And like I say what if an achievement made the player try a car/track combo they would never have thought of trying, then once they did try it they actually liked it?!! Of course the trick is to do "good" achievements. Either way though career and achievements arn't linked. A good career mode can actually breath some life into what can actually be quite a soulless experience (for some).

Yeah I agree, Achievements and even steam trading cards are a big thing now, because the achievements seem to be regarded as a sign to show your prowess to all. (Don't see the point about trading cards in all honesty.)

Totally agree, the key thing about achievements is that for them to be good, they need to be an achievement!
Not something everybody gets for getting X amounts of wins, but for something that is hard to achieve. And gives the player a proud feeling upon reaching it, similar to what your first win in Monacco or the Nordschleife must've felt in GPL.

To give you an example, in the DLC " LNER Peppercorn Class A2 'Blue Peter'" (a steam locomotive) for Trainsimulator 2017 there is the Pole Position achievement, for which you have to reach a speed of 100 mph in that loco, which is where the loco is running at near it's absolute limit. It's a tough one to get, so that so far only 0.1% of the total Train Simulator 2017 playerbase have reached it. I know of ten others that have it. Ok it's a bit of a niche DLC

Took me 50 out of the 75 miles between London and Peterborough to reach it, and felt like a true achievement. Well I chose the harder option, and did it while dragging 11 Mk1 Coaches behind the loco. Would've been boring and no challenge otherwise.

To take that into the racing world, the equivalent would be trying to beat Stefan Bellof's Nordschleife Record in a Group C Porsche 962, or trying to repeat Sennas Brands Hatch lap.

I also like AC's approach to it, that you have multi-tiered Achievements, for going up against different AI difficulties, which I think is a great idea, given that if you for example had an achievement like "equal Mclaren's wins tally of the 1988 season", which would be easy to achieve against weak AI but quite a challenge against hard AI. (Something I would've liked for the TS 2017 Achievement, as that treats reaching it with the loco alone the same as doing it with 11 Coaches behind it, and the latter is certainly harder. )

And I can see the issue of a Career mode if it's done to the level of Codie's F1 games, namely that it doesn't take away the people who make tracks, physics etc. but that it might take additional people and more importantly time and resources, aka money.

I mean we need 3D models of people, animators, and we need voice actors, and good ones aren't that cheap. Though one can make some significant savings by not going for celebrity voice actors.
Which has been a worrying trend in games outside simming, that they try to go for the star power of big movie or TV stars and spend loads of cash on one voice actor which could've spent elsewhere.
And yeah I don't like Crofty, he's way to partisan for me.

And while I like that mode, it doesn't need to be built as fully fledged as it is in the Cody F1 games, you could take the base contents, like the R&D, and the team members, and maybe team members, without the voice acting and 3D actors as well, and apply that to a game.
Maybe with a fake Twitter/Facebook wall like in PCars 1.
Interviews could be handled similarly.
I know it's less immersion and atmosphere, but sometimes you don't need the full production and leaving the players some room for the cinema in his/her head* can actually work quite well, as for example the Mount & Blade Games have shown. They have next to no story, and the whole "story" is in your head.

* Sorry, the german term "Kopfkino" that is hard to translate, it basically means the story that your imagination spins.

A developer should decide prudently based how to make it, based on the expected income, and err on the side of caution.
If they aren't sure they might offer a basic career mode and if there are calls for a more fleshed out career mode, with 3d Models and voice actors, it could become a payed DLC that people can buy.
That would allow them to cover the additional cost.
If anyone of them is reading, that is not an allowance for certain devs to cut core features from the game for an extra buck, it's intended as a solution for small teams that have no big budget and are unsure if such a mode and such an expense is warranted.

Your thoughts?

Again like in Both Pcars, keep the cars unlocked outside the Career mode. If you want unlocks, they should be limited to maybe a special car reskin for the career mode, like having your Championship winning car livery availlable for MP.

But the racing game should also offer a championship or custom championship mode, where the players can decide what series they'll race and what tracks.
For example a 2002 F1 season, but with classic Hockenheim instead of the new one.

 

[arniesan]

Yeah I agree, Achievements and even steam trading cards are a big thing now, because the achievements seem to be regarded as a sign to show your prowess to all. (Don't see the point about trading cards in all honesty.)

Totally agree, the key thing about achievements is that for them to be good, they need to be an achievement!
Not something everybody gets for getting X amounts of wins, but for something that is hard to achieve. And gives the player a proud feeling upon reaching it, similar to what your first win in Monacco or the Nordschleife must've felt in GPL.

To give you an example, in the DLC " LNER Peppercorn Class A2 'Blue Peter'" (a steam locomotive) for Trainsimulator 2017 there is the Pole Position achievement, for which you have to reach a speed of 100 mph in that loco, which is where the loco is running at near it's absolute limit. It's a tough one to get, so that so far only 0.1% of the total Train Simulator 2017 playerbase have reached it. I know of ten others that have it. Ok it's a bit of a niche DLC

Took me 50 out of the 75 miles between London and Peterborough to reach it, and felt like a true achievement. Well I chose the harder option, and did it while dragging 11 Mk1 Coaches behind the loco. Would've been boring and no challenge otherwise.

To take that into the racing world, the equivalent would be trying to beat Stefan Bellof's Nordschleife Record in a Group C Porsche 962, or trying to repeat Sennas Brands Hatch lap.

I also like AC's approach to it, that you have multi-tiered Achievements, for going up against different AI difficulties, which I think is a great idea, given that if you for example had an achievement like "equal Mclaren's wins tally of the 1988 season", which would be easy to achieve against weak AI but quite a challenge against hard AI. (Something I would've liked for the TS 2017 Achievement, as that treats reaching it with the loco alone the same as doing it with 11 Coaches behind it, and the latter is certainly harder. )

And I can see the issue of a Career mode if it's done to the level of Codie's F1 games, namely that it doesn't take away the people who make tracks, physics etc. but that it might take additional people and more importantly time and resources, aka money.

I mean we need 3D models of people, animators, and we need voice actors, and good ones aren't that cheap. Though one can make some significant savings by not going for celebrity voice actors.
Which has been a worrying trend in games outside simming, that they try to go for the star power of big movie or TV stars and spend loads of cash on one voice actor which could've spent elsewhere.
And yeah I don't like Crofty, he's way to partisan for me.

And while I like that mode, it doesn't need to be built as fully fledged as it is in the Cody F1 games, you could take the base contents, like the R&D, and the team members, and maybe team members, without the voice acting and 3D actors as well, and apply that to a game.
Maybe with a fake Twitter/Facebook wall like in PCars 1.
Interviews could be handled similarly.
I know it's less immersion and atmosphere, but sometimes you don't need the full production and leaving the players some room for the cinema in his/her head* can actually work quite well, as for example the Mount & Blade Games have shown. They have next to no story, and the whole "story" is in your head.

* Sorry, the german term "Kopfkino" that is hard to translate, it basically means the story that your imagination spins.

A developer should decide prudently based how to make it, based on the expected income, and err on the side of caution.
If they aren't sure they might offer a basic career mode and if there are calls for a more fleshed out career mode, with 3d Models and voice actors, it could become a payed DLC that people can buy.
That would allow them to cover the additional cost.
If anyone of them is reading, that is not an allowance for certain devs to cut core features from the game for an extra buck, it's intended as a solution for small teams that have no big budget and are unsure if such a mode and such an expense is warranted.

Your thoughts?

Again like in Both Pcars, keep the cars unlocked outside the Career mode. If you want unlocks, they should be limited to maybe a special car reskin for the career mode, like having your Championship winning car livery availlable for MP.

But the racing game should also offer a championship or custom championship mode, where the players can decide what series they'll race and what tracks.
For example a 2002 F1 season, but with classic Hockenheim instead of the new one.

OK, career and achievements can add something to a track racing sim; but a great deal of it can be done by thinking for ourselves, without having it done for us and some of us like to do that.
Using a good championship the challenges are endless in a sim'...no need for anything else to have good racing and racing is what it is all about.
Yeh, I know, I'm out of touch.

 

[Steve Worrell]

For me I like to have a custom championship mode. The best I have seen is log analyser for rf2. The detail on that thing is unbelievable.