Have Your Say: Acceptable Risk or Dangerous Liability? The Isle of Man TT

[Damage Inc]

Somehow I doubt that.

Oh and Damage............I totally agree with you about bikers and their much better ability at staying safe and alive on the British roads.
I have been riding bikes since 1980 and over the years I have developed road skills that car drivers (who have never been bikers) can't even imagine. Remember, we don't put lipstick on, we don't pick up mobile phones and we don't change the CD or twiddle with our knobs whilst riding.

I have also noticed that when riding hard and fast my concentration and awareness is so increased that my mind forgets all about lifes' problems totally. It is extremely relaxing for me and it is why I love riding so much. Hard to explain really. Riding on the track is even more mind absorbing because the speed and the risk increases. I often find I am mentally as well as physically exhausted after an hour on track. Cadwell Park is extremely tiring to keep going fast and safe as is Oulton Park and Mallory Park.
And Rupe is right about new racers to the Isle of Man TT. They do go through a newcomers training regime. Many have already competed in the lesser known Manx GP and learnt the track that way. And believe it or not, many use the Playstation 2 and the TT superbikes game to learn the track. I know this because I have spoken with a few of them.

Really glad we have something in common Andy

For me personally biking is the purest form of man and machine travelling along together, I only ever had 600 supersports (mainly ZX6Rs), more than enough power for me and loved the howl at 12k+revs! You do learn a LOT as you say, especially regarding anticipating what other road users are going to do. But it was still safest to assume they were actively trying to kill me!! ah hell I REALLY miss biking....Ride and Ride 2 just don't quite hit the spot........

I can't imagine how tiring it is full on racing, I got nadgered going up to the NEC for bikes shows!

I never had those PStation bike games, never really got on with joypads and bike games, it was only MGP15 then Ride and Ride 2 that I got into bike games. I so want this new TT game coming out to be semi decent as I really want to have a crack at learning the TT. The NW200 and Ulster GP tracks on Ride 2 have really whetted my appetite for road racing.

 

[Andy_J]

Really glad we have something in common Andy

ah hell I REALLY miss biking...

Damage.........you only live once. Get another bike pronto. My motto: "we were put on Earth for a good time, not a long time"
Here are my three steeds at the moment:
Main Touring and work bike: Yamaha Fazer 8

My Track/race bike Honda CBR600:

My fast main bike, the brutal 180 bhp and 179kg Suzuki GSXR1000 K8 limited Edition:

 

[mrbungle83]

People who get right up the rear of another driver who is travelling an acceptable speed usually have this number plate A55 H01ES. I don't care about the situation if you're gonna drive dangerously because someone isn't going as fast as 'you' want then thats a jackass move.

 

[Damage Inc]

Damage.........you only live once. Get another bike pronto. My motto: "we were put on Earth for a good time, not a long time"
Here are my three steeds at the moment:
Main Touring and work bike: Yamaha Fazer 8

My Track/race bike Honda CBR600:

My fast main bike, the brutal 180 bhp and 179kg Suzuki GSXR1000 K8 limited Edition:

Believe me i want to , I'm on disability so can barely afford to keep the family car going. maybe I'll win the lottery and can have a garage full of bikes 'n' cars! (in my dreams )

 

[Damage Inc]

People who get right up the rear of another driver who is travelling an acceptable speed usually have this number plate A55 H01ES. I don't care about the situation if you're gonna drive dangerously because someone isn't going as fast as 'you' want then thats a jackass move.

And why are these slow people travelling in the outside and middle lanes? Because THEY don't want to get stuck behind slower trucks, vans, caravans. They have the same number plate, if the inside lane is free, get the fudge out of it regardless if there is a vehicle behind. It is stupid and selfish driving to hog. Do you honestly think someone get's in/on their vehicle and says "I'm going to tailgate some smeg head today!".....no they don't. Neither is in the right I never said anything contrary to that, but the undeniable truth is Hoggers CAUSE tailgating.

The ONLY caveats I'll make are people who tailgate in a long queue with the inside lanes full, that is completely pointless and done by humongous morons. And all the people (usually women in my experience) who on a UK single carriageway "A" road (40-60 mph roads) drive about an inch off someone's bumper and never overtake.

my point in all my warblings (off topic so I'll apologise for that) is that I think it is extremely stupid and daft to single out anything speed related as being the be all and end all cause of motor accidents. That's dangerous IMO. Safety campaigners say the anti speed ethos is working because road deaths (uk) are falling......but I say that's because of safer cars. I believe that road deaths of non drivers are on the UP despite punitive speeding penalties and police concentrating on those offenses.

The main causes of accidents for me are:
1) lack of concentration (drugs and alcohol as well as general tiredness affect this, also mobile phones)
2) lack of situational awareness (SOOOO important to know what is going on ALL around you)
3) poorly maintained vehicles (especially tyres, as an ex motorcyclist I was PARANOID about the state of my tyres and checked their condition and pressure EVERY day....those things go on a bike and you're smegged)

If the anti speed lobby would wake up and address these issues accident rates will fall. But they're too short sighted.

<off topic rant over>

 

[mrbungle83]

I don't agree with you on a lot of things, primarily taking responsibility for ones own actions. Whilst i do agree that lane hogging is annoying and particularly bad driving that is never the cause of other bad driving, if you then decide that your gonna stick your car to there rear bumper then your just as bad if not worse because its premeditated. Flashing your lights would be enough in this case and just waiting. Do you ram your shopping cart up the elderly in supermarkets because that is probably a less arrogant and stupid thing to do than tailgate as this genuinely puts lives at risk... Then again this thread is all about that.

 

[Damage Inc]

I don't agree with you on a lot of things, primarily taking responsibility for ones own actions. Whilst i do agree that lane hogging is annoying and particularly bad driving that is never the cause of other bad driving, if you then decide that your gonna stick your car to there rear bumper then your just as bad if not worse because its premeditated. Flashing your lights would be enough in this case and just waiting. Do you ram your shopping cart up the elderly in supermarkets because that is probably a less arrogant and stupid thing to do than tailgate as this genuinely puts lives at risk... Then again this thread is all about that.

That;s the thing you don't understand it's NOT premediated, it's a REACTION to the driver in front. I said before in my other post (I'll quote it)

Do you honestly think someone get's in/on their vehicle and says "I'm going to tailgate some smeg head today!"

So once again it's categorically NOT premeditated and only in reaction to the bad driving of the person hogging the lane.

I also think our definition of tail gating may be different, I'm not referring to what is basically "bump drafting".....never actually seen anyone get that close. You DO realise vehicles are not as close in reality to what they seem in the mirrors right? For me personally as soon as the distance between the vehicles drops to less than 2 car lengths that is tail gating to me. And FYI here is my process of thought (more common in my biking days but I have on occasion needed to do it in my car).

1) approach slower vehicle, feeling narked inside lane is empty.
2) slow to safe distance and follow hoping the fool in front uses their mirrors and has the situational awareness the inside lane is clear and moves over like a courteous driver SHOULD do.
3) after at least 1-2 minutes I slowly increase speed to appear larger in their mirror.but still leaving a margin of error gap (on my bike I'd have 2 fingers on my brake lever and right foot covering back brake ready just in case I get brake tested).
4) Flash my lights after a further 1-2 minutes
5) honk my horn after a further 1-2 minutes
6) (bike only) undertake the blind/deaf/dumb feckwit and give the finger as I pass. (ok so that's bad, but they deserve it)

The only arrogance is the hogger and the danger is they royally PISS off the vehicle behind. Anyone THAT oblivious to the traffic around them is a DANGEROUS liability IMO.

SITUATIONAL AWARENESS/CONCENTRATION/COURTESY. <-----SO important.

Going fast/speeding does not equate to a discourteous driver every time, but a hogger? yup that's discourtesy in it's purest form. and stupidity/**** driving at it's worst.

Sorry for this but hogging/lack of situational awareness is my NUMERO UNO pet peev of drivers and I will NEVER EVER find it acceptable.


edit, don't know if I've already said this but I'm ONLY talking about motorways and A roads with at least two lanes here, I never did the above on single lane carriageways. And I do agree that following too closely on single lane carriageways is not a sign of intelligence. You need a largeish gap to start accelerating into before an overtaking manouever and the gap gives room for an abort.

And one last edit LOL, because I realise I sound confrontational thankfully I have cruise control in my car and usually set it to 80 mph (75 on sat nav). More people going faster than me than going slower than me (in cars) most times. So I do plenty of getting out of peoples way.

 

[BenCollins]

The Isle of Man TT doesn't kill anyone typically, but the riders themselves.

Personally, I don't consider any sporting achievement worth dying for, but if they do, that's fine.

If they have children, they are being incredibly selfish and deserve no respect, bringing up their children takes priority over everything else.

If it's just them and no one else, sure fine, miss a braking point and die hitting a pub wall. I think it's pointless and needless personally. There are other, better, safer ways of testing yourself as a motorbike rider than risking your life at the Isle of Man.

The only difference in dying at the IOM TT compared to killing yourself riding into a local ditch at 4am is fame. The IOM TTs should be scrapped. They are unsafe and no prowess in motor racing is on display. Scrap it today. Full stop.

 

[BenCollins]

But before we do that, we need to wait until November, when we can steal the IOM TT Course from that awful game and put it into AC/AMS,that will be a marvellous moment.

Kunos, get the motorbike sim going now!

 

[Damage Inc]

The Isle of Man TT doesn't kill anyone typically, but the riders themselves.

Personally, I don't consider any sporting achievement worth dying for, but if they do, that's fine.

If they have children, they are being incredibly selfish and deserve no respect, bringing up their children takes priority over everything else.

If it's just them and no one else, sure fine, miss a braking point and die hitting a pub wall. I think it's pointless and needless personally. There are other, better, safer ways of testing yourself as a motorbike rider than risking your life at the Isle of Man.

The only difference in dying at the IOM TT compared to killing yourself riding into a local ditch at 4am is fame. The IOM TTs should be scrapped. They are unsafe and no prowess in motor racing is on display. Scrap it today. Full stop.

But as I (and others) have said why stop at the TT. ANYTHING that is dangerous should be banned, people die all the time doing dangerous things and leave children and partners in grief. Do they get your scorn as well?

Not only that some dangerous activities endanger OTHER people, take mountaineering or any activity that requires someone to be rescued, other people risking their lives because someone wants to do something that is risky. FAR worse in my book to endanger someone else's life.

Do you know what I'm really amazed at some of the comments here in a MOTORSPORTS sim forum.

 

[BenCollins]

It's my opinion. It's very, very dangerous, there are riders killed very often, unlike MotoGP for example. There have been almost 60 riders killed since the year 2000.

Do you think we should go back to 1960 standards in other motorsports too?

 

[mrbungle83]

This one doesn't understand excessively dangerous. Only dangerous or not. Like an on off switch. Expect the... What arbitrary number are you ok with in terms of death toll nonsense. How about this a little more dangerous than driving to work .. A lot less dangerous than playing Russian roulette.

 

[BenCollins]

This one doesn't understand excessively dangerous. Only dangerous or not. Like an on off switch. Expect the... What arbitrary number are you ok with in terms of death toll nonsense. How about this a little more dangerous than driving to work .. A lot less dangerous than playing Russian roulette.

What are you talking about?

 

[mrbungle83]

What are you talking about?

Damageinc thinks that if isle of man was to be banned then all sports that intail an element of danger also need banning. My point was he literally doesn't understand the notion of somthing being too dangerous. only dangerous or not dangerous. I.e on or off, black and white, binery. No middle ground.

 

[BenCollins]

Damageinc thinks that if isle of man was to be banned then all sports that intail an element of danger also need banning. My point was he literally doesn't understand the notion of somthing being too dangerous. only dangerous or not dangerous. I.e on or off, black and white, binery. No middle ground.

Oh ok, I think I understand your post now.

I think anyone involved in commercial motorsport would agree that the IOM TT is one of the most dangerous events in motor racing. Off hand, I cannot think of another popular event where so many competitors are regularly killed.

As well as the near 60 deaths to riders since the year 2000, there has been 5 marshalls/spectators killed too.

It's not acceptable anymore in sport. Time to close it down.

 

[Damage Inc]

It's not "nonsense" it's BEING FAIR and treating things EQUALLY if you can't understand that then that's your issue mrbungle. Being FAIR is the binary issue NOT the danger. I fully realise the IOM is dangerous and more dangerous than other forms of motorsport.

The issue is CHOICE. Thankfully the decision does not rest with you two.

 

[mrbungle83]

Your so digital.

 

[Damage Inc]

Your so digital.

First off I'll apologise for the insult and edit it out, was in a bad mood yesterday.

On the subject of equality, yes I'm digital. That's the only way to be fair, pick and choose what gets what treatment is basically bias and prejudice.

Yes the IOM is particularly dangerous, I think we agree on that at least. But if you can't understand that "other" activities are just as (if not more) dangerous and calling for only one to be banned is inequality then that's something we will never agree on and it's best to end it there.

 

[Kasti]

Why ban it?
Eyeryone who takes part in the race is:
1. adult
2. not forced to do that
3. does what he loves to do
Let them do what they do - nobody is forced to watch it or to take even notice of what happens there. Adult people have the right to do dangerous things, if they don`t bring not involved people into danger. Everyone in this race is an involved one: drivers,spectators, teammembers or marshalls. They are there because they want, despite of the risks.

 

[Isaac Chavira]

Why ban it?
Eyeryone who takes part in the race is:
1. adult
2. not forced to do that
3. does what he loves to do
Let them do what they do - nobody is forced to watch it or to take even notice of what happens there. Adult people have the right to do dangerous things, if they don`t bring not involved people into danger. Everyone in this race is an involved one: drivers,spectators, teammembers or marshalls. They are there because they want, despite of the risks.

+1 on all of this. These men have balls made of cast iron and will to match. This race was not meant to coddle riders. It is the truest test of rider skill known to man. These guys aren't riding on perfectly prepared race tracks. They are on grueling public roads.