Have Your Say: Acceptable Risk or Dangerous Liability? The Isle of Man TT

[jonelsorel]

Political correctness is the reformed form of marxism - the cultural one (see Frankfurt School). It's politics that shapes society. And the point of life, generally speaking, is to find that thing that defines you and that you'd do until death, isn't it?

 

[ShredatorFIN]

Not banned, perhaps some safety measures like has been done to almost every circuit after too many fatalities. Not sure how, due to open road.

There is people dying in BASE jumps, wingsuits, free/mountain climbing too, but honestly those IOM TT fatality rates make me a bit uncomfortable to see. 23 deaths since 2011. Like I would be bad person for cheering for this

Free world, people can risk their lives if they want (and I even understand why people do it, I've skydived myself) but still this is something I would feel uncomfortable of "hyping" and cheering massively for. Difference between big balls and small brains is sometimes not so huge

 

[TzZyO]

As far as I can remember, wingsuit proximity flying is prone to much more fatalities in a given time indeed. Probably even MX is a more dangerous activity. People seem to take all those jumps too easy thanks to how the professionals make it look like. So, in the end there is a whole lot of dangerous activities out there and enough of them present a high enough risk to the bystanders as well. IoM TT is definitely not the worst offender here. And if you desperately want to ban something, ban issuing driving licenses to inept drivers first. Now that could save lives on a far grander scale.

 

[ThatRacingGuy]

Isle Of Man TT is one of the best Motorsports events of all time if you ask me, Sure it's probably safer if you do shark diving then doing the TT but it's so awesome

 

[UMC 22]

It would be a sad, sad day if the IOMTT got stopped. Of course it shouldn't be.

As pretty much every 'no' voter has said, the riders taking part in this event know the risks, and the risks are part of what makes it for them. They're not blind or stupid, they've seen people killed on track and those people may even have been friends of theirs. But they still head out anyway because they are doing something they love. For them, the experience and the positives they personally get out of taking part outweighs the risks. And who are we to tell them how they should or shouldn't risk their own lives?

From a spectator's point of view, one of the reasons we love it is because of the huge risk the riders are taking. We watch things like MotoGP too and they can be exciting, but they are also very "safe". The risk level is very, very low, relatively speaking. The thing that makes the IOMTT stand out is the fact that we know the riders are taking huge risks in the name of sheer speed, and that fact makes for great entertainment and huge respect for all involved.

Someone else said that they're tired of seeing this question pop up every single year. So am I, to be honest. I'm also tired of society telling people how they should live their lives, and trying to eliminate all risk for everybody, even those ready and willing to take those risks because they personally choose to do so. If you don't want to risk your life, that's fine... don't. But stop trying to prevent others from doing what they love, and mind your own damn business.

 

[Willy Wale]

As long as the marshals and spectators are safe, the riders should be able to make their own choice.

 

[Jebus]

As long they do it with the free will and no spectators are harmed, except maybe mentally in those worst cases, they should continue. At this point it should be clear to everyone what the risks are and if they still want to do it then why not.

 

[fetzcat]

Better to die having fun during racing than to grow exasperated over new bans.

 

[Andy_J]

I think it's gotten far to stupid. The complete lack of respect of life is not right. Whether it's your own or even other people's it's a disgrace. I think it glamorizes guys doing totally insane speeds that wind up dying. I wouldn't do 180 through my town for risk of getting killed, why would I do it in this race? For the money? Fame? There comes a point when it's just egregious. Life should not be taken this lightly. The TT was fine when the speeds were much more manageable. But now with superbikes with 200BHP is far beyond what was ever intended to be raced at the Isle. It would be no different than watching Nascar or Indycar or F1 and guys dying every weekend weaving through city streets. It would be unacceptable. But somehow at the TT it's ok. This is just plain wrong.

You are either trolling us here or you are one of the PC brigade. I'm not sure which.
There were far more deaths at the TT in the old days and through the 70's and 80's than their is now. Bikes are more powerful but they also have better brakes, better handling and better tyres.
Any way why am I discussing this with someone who would take a man's freedom to compete away from him just because you don't agree with it and don't do such things yourself? You don't know anything about real road racing going by some of your comments above. And to even compare it with you doing 180 through your own town is just plain bat crazy.
Oh and believe me they don't do it for the money. Some use their life savings to compete at the TT. Even some of the top riders only get a paltry winning fee, sometimes less than a thousand quid. You wouldn't get an F1 driver doing it for that. And fame can't be the motive either. Most on here had probably never heard of Josh Brookes or Peter Hickman or even Michael Dunlop.
Ask yourself a question. Does it harm you or affect you in any way if these brave men and women decide to do such dangerous racing? Does it really harm you? Why would it bother you?

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

My mind said yes it should be banned as it's ridiculous how many have lost their lives already.

Buuuuuuuut, as people sign up for this kind of racing voluntary I let my heart speak the total opposite of what my mind voted: carry on with this awesomeness.

 

[Eddy]

You are either trolling us here or you are one of the PC brigade. I'm not sure which.
There were far more deaths at the TT in the old days and through the 70's and 80's than their is now. Bikes are more powerful but they also have better brakes, better handling and better tyres.
Any way why am I discussing that with someone who would take a man's freedom to compete away from him just because you don't agree with it and don't do such things yourself? You don't know anything about real road racing going by some of your comments above. And to even compare it with you doing 180 through your own town is just plain bat crazy.
Oh and believe me they don't do it for the money. Some use their life savings to compete at the TT. Even some of the top riders only get a paltry winning fee, sometimes less than a thousand quid. You wouldn't get an F1 driver doing it for that. And fame can't be the motive either. Most on here had probably never heard of Josh Brookes or Peter Hickman or even Michael Dunlop.
Ask yourself a question. Does it harm you or affect you in any way if these brave men and women decide to do such dangerous racing? Does it really harm you? Why would it bother you?

Love that picture, why trim your hedge when you can get a lunatic on a bike to do it free of charge I've seen a similar shot, I forget who it was but they peeled the outer layer of leather skimming a wall

 

[ShredatorFIN]

What I've noticed is that many sports fans who fanatically defend macho values in sports, have often nothing macho about themselves. Soft bellied hockey fans who never took a fight defending NHL fights, ignoring the CTE disease found in the brain of former goonies etc.. it's between sad and amusing

But drivers volunteer of course, doesn't really matter what audience thinks for them I believe. They know the risks and it's worth the glory for them. At least until one is paralyzed for life. People often have regrets at that point.. dead have no regrets of course

 

[ETandK]

@Paul Jeffrey
I am disappointed with you and this topic. You must be bored.

To be honest I am fed up with certain motorcycle forums, newspapers and some TV commentators asking the same question. We get it every year.
More people die on Mt Everest every year, would the do gooders and PC brigade want to ban mountain climbing too?
They all know the risks, as do the spectators. They wouldn't do it if there was no risk.
3 racers died this year. They died doing something they wanted to do. They didn't die of cancer, old age, liver disease or heart attack. They died knowing the risk and doing something they loved. Non racers and non road racing bikers could never understand.
There will always be the silly do-gooders in society who are against it. They are the ones who don't really understand these things. Normally the type of people who don't accept any risks in life, have never risked anything in life and probably have only looked after themselves. They should mind their own business and carry on mowing the lawn or doing the dishes.

Hear hear.....

The thrill and love for what they doing, which makes them feel alive, outweighs the risk in their mind. And that decision should lie with those daring their lives...

Imagine if we only had golf to watch, we'd die of boredom.

 

[Timmy UK]

23 deaths since 2011.
In a road race.
More people are murdered by illegal drones, everyday.
In illegal 'wars'.
Including children.
Everyday.
Don't fall for PC deflection.
'Divide and Conquer'; PC deflection is a tool of governments to control you.
Simply by getting you to fall out with others, and argue.
Focus on the real issues.
Enjoy the sport for what it is.
Get angry about illegal wars, not motorcycle racing.

 

[Andy_J]

What I've noticed is that many sports fans who fanatically defend macho values in sports, have often nothing macho about themselves. Soft bellied hockey fans who never took a fight defending NHL fights, ignoring the CTE disease found in the brain of former goonies etc.. it's between sad and amusing

If that is aimed at me I'll get a bit upset.
I have raced motorcycles on circuits in the UK in my younger days. I have always ridden fast motorcycles on our public roads. I continue to do track days on very fast race prepared motorcycles to this day and I served 22 years in the Military. So I guess I can confidently suggest I am not one of your soft bellied fans fanatically defending my sport. And I personally know one guy who died at the TT doing what he loved doing.

 

[Andy_J]

My mind said yes it should be banned as it's ridiculous how many have lost their lives already.

Buuuuuuuut, as people sign up for this kind of racing voluntary I let my heart speak the total opposite of what my mind voted: carry on with this awesomeness.

Glad you let your heart speak to your brain Bram.
As it happens, there have been 292 deaths just climbing Mt Everest since 1922. The total deaths at the TT since 1907 is 255.
So really perhaps mountain climbing should be banned?
There were 100 cycling deaths in the UK in 2015 alone. Should we ban cycling? My mind says yes.

 

[fortyfivekev]

Personally, I stopped watching after David Jefferies was killed in 2003 but as many people have said, it's the rider's choice to ride and plenty of other activities are just as dangerous as road racing.

I do think that a lot more could be done to reduce the risks mostly by cutting the speed of the bikes. I don't see why the event needs full race bikes on slicks. Most spectators can't tell the difference between 130mph and 180mph so why not make them slower.

@Andy Jackson Most of those cyclists were killed by bad driving so that's a BS argument.

 

[Andy_J]

Personally, I stopped watching after David Jefferies was killed in 2003 but as many people have said, it's the rider's choice to ride and plenty of other activities are just as dangerous as road racing.

I do think that a lot more could be done to reduce the risks mostly by cutting the speed of the bikes. I don't see why the event needs full race bikes on slicks. Most spectators can't tell the difference between 130mph and 180mph so why not make them slower.

@Andy Jackson Most of those cyclists were killed by bad driving so that's a BS argument.

Well it was a comparison. Cycling is a sport and it is dangerous and has had many deaths. So not really BS.
Nothing needs doing at the TT to make it safer. The risks are part of the challenge and the riders accept that. If you don't like it, don't do it is their motto.
Most spectators can actually tell the difference between 130 mph and 180 mph, especially through Kirk Michael and similar spectating area's. Slicks provide more grip than road tyres, but if you are suggesting they use road tyres, well they do in the 1000cc superstock class and they are doing nearly the same lap times as the superbikes anyway.
Perhaps car racing should have speed limits too? F1 could be made much safer if the PC brigade manage to make them only do a maximum of 100 miles per hour?

 

[ShredatorFIN]

If that is aimed at me I'll get a bit upset.
I have raced motorcycles on circuits in the UK in my younger days. I have always ridden fast motorcycles on our public roads. I continue to do track days on very fast race prepared motorcycles to this day and I served 22 years in the Military. So I guess I can confidently suggest I am not one of your soft bellied fans fanatically defending my sport. And I personally know one guy who died at the TT doing what he loved doing.

Nah not at you at all, just a larger observation. Of course also other kind of people support these things (athletes themselves). Fights in hockey have their purpose, but also human brain isn't designed to handle multiple concussions. People inside NHL are waking up to the fact, but I feel the audience cares less than the actual athletes and doctors treating them

Anyway, as long as people don't risk others lives (public roads in traffic) or have children/family the are free to do what they want. In case of possible accident death probably preferable to being paralyzed, because schoolmate of mine got paralyzed in motorcycle accident and it's not nice life

 

[MSKbeans]

I broken my neck, then 10 months later broke my back. Yes I would race again even after doctors say don't. My wife would let me as long as financially sound, Well that's not about to happen so no racing. Win the lottery and I'll be racing next week. . ITS MY CHOICE...that's what it comes down to