GTR2: Why are Modern Sims Still Not as Good?

[Paul Jeffrey]

GTR2 is 11 years old, features a series that no longer exists and was developed for technology less advanced than a modern smart phone. Unbelievably it's still one of the best sims available today.

What I want to know is why? Why in the last 10 + years have some of the many awesome features found in this now long forgotten game not made their way into something more modern? Ok granted many different games feature some of the bits in GTR2, but no single title has taken what was already an incredible base and expanded upon it with the aid of much advanced technology we now have at our disposal.

Driving School? Check
Fully animated pit workers? Check
Animated flag marshals? Check
Day - night transition? Check
Weather cycle? Check
Full official series licence, over two separate seasons? Check
...and the list goes on and on...

Simply put GTR2 was massively overdeveloped, period. SimBin Studios quite literally took every single aspect of the then premier GT racing series in the world and recreated it all into a compelling racing experience that still stands out as a top simulation even by the standards of today, 11 years after the game hit our shelves.

I just find it all incredibility bizarre. In very few industries outside of sim racing will you see a decline in product quality and content as the years progress like we have to put up with today. When GTR2 first shipped in September 2006 the game was a complete package, not splattered with ridiculous bugs that prevented anyone having a good time, not bombarded by wave after wave of disparate DLC content with little or no relevance to the main experience and not hanging on by the merest thread for dear life as another iteration of something that's been released by someone else already. It really was a golden time for sim racing fans, and those who witnessed it all first hand really did think this would be the beginning of something big in sim racing.

Fast forward to 2017 and sadly the progress expected post GTR2 has quite simply not materialised. The game, the official simulation of the FIA GT World Championship, was probably the very last fully feature complete racing simulation we have seen in our niche genre. We've had loads of new games since then, some of which have even been released by the same people responsible for GTR and GTR2, but none have even come close to matching the level of features and polish afforded fans back in 2006. It's down right strange.

Take RaceRoom Racing Experience for example, developed as the next GT game from the people behind GTR and GTR2, when the title first hit public beta stage back in February 2013 what did we have? Basically a hotlapping simulation with limited content, no official series licence, no AI to race against and precisely zero multiplayer features. Added to the still missing animated flag marshals and a range of other GTR2 items that haven't made the move over with time, it's all rather a depressing scene in which to take in.

Ok I appreciate Sector3 have worked exceptionally hard at improving RaceRoom to get to a level where it is barely recognisable now to what it looked like on launch day, but still to even consider releasing a game that was basically stripped of everything that made GTR2 great is simply mind boggling.

And it's not just RaceRoom that are guilty of missing out some key features considered par for the course 11 years ago, everyone is doing it! You only have to look at one of the most popular sims on the market Assetto Corsa as a perfect example, they consider themselves to be perfectionists on a mission to produce the most true to life experience possible, and they even miss out the core basics like weather and day to night transition, never mind such "nice to have" features like a driving school, proper flag implementation and multiclass racing options. It's simply amazing to realise that these features quite simply only exist in a game that was designed and released over a decade ago. Unbelievable.

GTR2 still looks pretty good on top graphics settings, still feels very nice indeed with my trusty CSW V2 and still sounds like it belongs in the very top tier of audio experience. All that whilst replicating a seriously mega international championship in a exceptionally detailed simulation that really does pick out all the little features that makes driving on a virtual track feel like the real thing. With that said and the pretty compelling physics considering the age of the title added up with stuff that no other sim has all together in one package, this is why I still believe GTR2 is, without reservation, the very best simulation racing experience one can purchase during 2017.

I love the game, it's just a bit sad that no one has thought to try and make something similar in the following 132 months since it was released.

GTR was released by SimBin Studios exclusively for PC. The game is still available to purchase on Steam for £4.99.

Like GTR2? Well lucky you, we are seriously considering a brand new informal league! Check out the GTR2 sub forum for general GTR2 discussion or our new GTR2 RDGT Championship forum for more details of the new league season. To prepare for the league all we ask is you have Premium membership, a fresh GTR2 install and these two additional patches HERE and HERE. Get ready for a return of the legend....

Do you still enjoy GTR2? What did the sim do right in your opinion? Why do features present in GTR2 still not appear in moderns sims? Let us know in the comments section below!

 

[Deleted member 130869]

"My favorite title released 2-7 years later doesn't have features that were a core given 10-20 years ago, let me forego certain reasonable arguments to justify why I believe it is the only title everyone else should be playing, and make excuses for people whom I pay money on the way."

 

[BREES]

Since i am pretty new to racing sim i never played it sadly. I am an eye-person, means graphics/looks are pretty important for me regarding pretty much everything (cars, clothes, women, computer games), so i'll probably keep sitting out on it. Tried AMS/Stock car, and the graphics just killed it for me, no matter how good the rest is..guess it would be the same with this one
hoping for Pcars2 or GTR3 to deliver something comparable..

Dont hope for too much, cause it aint gonna happen, I own it on cd and bought it from steam, I was around when graphics were blocks, so what it could do was more important!

 

[JayJayRaceinho]

The problem is...we're very demanding.

We want top notch physics.
We want photorealistic graphics.
We want ultra-realistic tyres.
We want day/night racing.
We want weather effects.
We want a "real road".
We want, we want, we want.

And we want it now!

I'm hoping that with GTR3 using the Unreal engine, that the devs can then spend more time on the list above.

aehm, that's what i initally thought i payed for the last few years

 

[BREES]

This sim owns at least 50 gigs of hard drive space, why because after I play everything else that I own, I have to come back to it, because it is the only one that offers all the things I need to feel like I am actively competing and not get bored, this is the stuff,that I grade all others by, I have owned it since it first came out, it and rf1 are the games I spend most of my time on, I love assetto corsa for where it is now, but I get bored with it real quick, Pcars, I can only look at the prettiness for a few minutes, and put it down, for those only looking for good looking sims, good luck to you, I like things with substance like my race sims and beautiful thick women!!!!!

 

[TzZyO]

You basically said it as clearly as any could have said it. You hit the nail on the head. I'm soooo tired of hearing the 'We're a small studio' excuse. I don't start a taxi service and then offer terrible service because I only have one taxi cab. If that's all I could offer, then I don't start a taxi service. If you can't build a proper sim, then don't. These sims nowadays are built specifically to not give simmers what they want. They are built to make the company as much money as possible. It's a greed thing plain and simple. You couldn't get away with this back in the day. Now you can. We're all used to it now. Why build a complete sim so that the simmer is happy and that's all he buys? Make it in stages and then sell endless DLC and of course say, 'In the next version you'll get this and that feature'. This unfortunately is what it's come to.

Get prepared to walk around from now on, since taxi drivers might actually heed your advice.

The main idea behind a sim is to properly represent the object it intends to simulate. Everything else is just the icing on a cake.

Nobody argues it would be perfect to have all the features one can come up with, but why don't we keep it realistic? There is not a single example of such a complete package as of yet.

"My favorite title released 2-7 years later doesn't have features that were a core given 10-20 years ago, let me forego certain reasonable arguments to justify why I believe it is the only title everyone else should be playing, and make excuses for people whom I pay money on the way."

I guess physics and FFB aren't exactly core features in a sim? Interesting...

 

[BREES]

This sim owns at least 50 gigs of hard drive space, why because after I play everything else that I own, I have to come back to it, because it is the only one that offers all the things I need to feel like I am actively competing and not get bored, this is the stuff,that I grade all others by, I have owned it since it first came out, it and rf1 are the games I spend most of my time on, I love assetto corsa for where it is now, but I get bored with it real quick, Pcars, I can only look at the prettiness for a few minutes, and put it down, for those only looking for good looking sims, good luck to you, I like things with substance like my race sims and beautiful thick women!!!!!

Oh yeah I was one of the original supporters of RF2, but it aggravates me right now, so I had to put it down, until it starts to make sense as a sim, I think GTR2, and RF1 are better! Never thought I would say that, but it is true!

 

[BREES]

Get prepared to walk around from now on, since taxi drivers might actually heed your advice.

The main idea behind a sim is to properly represent the object it intends to simulate. Everything else is just the icing on a cake.

Nobody argues it would be perfect to have all the features one can come up with, but why don't we keep it realistic? There is not a single example of such a complete package as of yet.


I guess physics and FFB aren't exactly core features in a sim? Interesting...

Yeah I was about to say the same thing, but of course if it looks good, that makes up for it!

 

[TzZyO]

Oh yeah I was one of the original supporters of RF2, but it aggravates me right now, so I had to put it down, until it starts to make sense as a sim, I think GTR2, and RF1 are better! Never thought I would say that, but it is true!

I guess you meant "as a game", not "as a sim".

 

[TzZyO]

Yeah I was about to say the same thing, but of course if it looks good, that makes up for it!

Blasphemy No looks can make up for the absence of physics in a sim. And GTR 2 isn't exactly a looker either.

 

[BREES]

Yeah I was about to say the same thing, but of course if it looks good, that makes up for it!

If you read at different forums about some of the old sims that are still being used, I think that it speaks volumes for those who think new is better, GTL, Nascar 2003, GPL these are sims that take some patience to learn how to drive them right, they will batter your ego, the only new one for me that plants and dynamite in your drawers and dares you to move is dirt rally, you first have to love what it represents and then learn how to drive it, I am not good at but it keeps me coming back!

 

[Rob]

Driving School? Check
Fully animated pit workers? Check
Animated flag marshals? Check
Day - night transition? Check
Weather cycle? Check

F1 2016 has them all and more.

I'll be happy if these "modern" devs can figure out how to put an oval series on a console.

 

[BREES]

I guess you meant "as a game", not "as a sim".

No I meant what I said sim, pcars is a game, Formula 2016 is a game!!

 

[BREES]

Blasphemy No looks can make up for the absence of physics in a sim. And GTR 2 isn't exactly a looker either.

Eactly you have to want to experience cause it is one ugly woman!

 

[Manwith Noname]

This might have been said already but I glossed over several pages...

GTR2 was made by people who now work for SMS, not Simbin...though they were all technically Simbin when it was a modding group. That's why, as someone noted, the closest we've had since was pCars...for all it's disappointments.

 

[Deleted member 130869]

I guess physics and FFB aren't exactly core features in a sim? Interesting...

Don't be that guy, the one who takes one piece of the argument then twists and misinterprets it completely.

 

[TzZyO]

If you read at different forums about some of the old sims that are still being used, I think that it speaks volumes for those who think new is better, GTL, Nascar 2003, GPL these are sims that take some patience to learn how to drive them right, they will batter your ego, the only new one for me that plants and dynamite in your drawers and dares you to move is dirt rally, you first have to love what it represents and then learn how to drive it, I am not good at but it keeps me coming back!

To be honest, GTL isn't all that hard. The 911s in it were a bit too "user-friendly".

No I meant what I said sim, pcars is a game, Formula 2016 is a game!!

I meant a different thing by a game. Basically, everything else that goes past the physics.

Don't be that guy, the one who takes one piece of the argument then twists and misinterprets it completely.

Correct me then instead of stating your opinion on what I supposedly do.

 

[Deleted member 130869]

Correct me then instead of stating your opinion on what I supposedly do.

Ok. Go back and read through the topic, the original post, my posts, and Paul explaining his post (shouldn't have been necessary), and then keep reading through the posts of those people not understanding the topic or behaving in the way I referred to before you quoted me the first time.

There. Now please, don't continue this.

 

[Andy_J]

Why does such a nice and refreshingly good topic on here have to always end with pointless arguments?

 

[Qazdar Karim]

I blame the sim racing community for evolving in the opposite direction too: we went from pure "simracers" to shills,video makers (with deplorable driving most of the time), forum campers and investors (wtf?!). The average simracer from 2006 lapped 1 sec off the pace at least, and knew the setup basics and more or less how a car should drive/feel.

I say it again! affording every sim in the market doesn't mean that you should buy them all, when you buy an unfinished product, you are encouraging mediocrity and killing proper products, because this early access groove is contagious.

Early access polluted gaming in general, half arsed stuff is sold everywhere and the circus is not anymore about the game itself but the bugfixing/feature implementation surrounding it. It's like cancer treatment ... and it's gonna get worse if we don't sensitize the average joe.

 

[Andy_J]

This ^^^^^ we only have ourselves to blame.