GTR evo cars physics

[Norbert Rebelski]

Don't you think guys that the physics of all new cars that came in gtr evo are a little dumbed down. (WTCC cars, caterham seem still to be ok)

I mean especially under breaking, with Race 07 cars you had to be carefull when applying the brake while turning. If you pushed the brake too much, then the car oversteered.
In gtr evo cars you could put the brick on your brake pedal and and there is no oversteer under breaking in a corner, as there was some braking stability system.

I miss it alot maybe because thats my style to point the nose of the car to the corner with help of the brake. I like to drive the car using its weight distribution as it helps me to turn the car and change directions.

On the other hand, theese cars seem to be ok while applying throttle, you have to be careful while doing that.

What do you think guys.

 

[Bill Bailey]

The biggest difference between GTR2 and Evo seems to be the tires. In GTR2 you have soft, medium, and hard tires, in Evo you only have one choice of dry tires and they seem to have similiar grip levels to the hard tires in GTR2. Try running some laps in GTR2 with hard tires front and back and you'll see what I mean.

Bill

 

[Frank Sutton]

The biggest difference between GTR2 and Evo seems to be the tires. In GTR2 you have soft, medium, and hard tires, in Evo you only have one choice of dry tires and they seem to have similiar grip levels to the hard tires in GTR2. Try running some laps in GTR2 with hard tires front and back and you'll see what I mean.

Bill

Good point Bill.

 

[Stormin]

I think RACE 07/EVO has the best physics iut there...

 

[Jarkko Rantajoki]

Yes EVO is way forgiving.. braking from 250km/h 2 tires on grass and getting away with it just dont do it for me.. well.. i guess ive said it so many times that it aint no secret what i think.. and i cant turn any fanboys head (and shouldnt either, as they shouldnt try to change my opinion about it).
I will be racing it occasionally, i doubt ill ever run it at a league level.. simply because it doesnt challenge me in the right way.
But it still can be very fun in right company and right combo.

 

[Tyson Cierpial]

Another setup change worth looking at is your caster (front of car in setup menu) as this will have a big effect on you turn in and exit of corners.

 

[Trevor Catt]

yeah i agree that default setups need to be tweaked in order to set fast times. for instance i've been working with the GT-Pro Koenigsegg CCGT on Nordschleife for the past week and i gained about twentyfive seconds just by tweaking the setup( offcourse it also helps to have driven almost 100 laps the past week), but i'm now down to a respectable 6:42:19.

I also took de C6R out for a spin on Nord a couple of times, first with the default setup and later with the setup from Sander H but somehow that car and me don't go to good (could very well be my driving style).But it remains an awesome car.

Off to Nord now....

Setups are a personal thing but one thing that you must realise is that they will only give you tenths on a small track if you can drive the consistent line.
So it is more important to use all of the track and drive the right lines and until you can lap consistently within a tenth or two at a track otherwise setups are not going to help you too much.

Trevor:thumb:

 

[Nils Wijk]

I do not agree with this, I allways find myself a lot faster with a tweaked seup as changes to some basic settings give me a lot more comfortable feel with the car. Changing the brakebalance allready helps me a lot

 

[Stirb Iuliu]

You should also remember GT class has a different level of handling and grip, compared with WTCC cars.


WTCC cars = big and heavy for their engine, narrower tyres than the GT's, limits for wing, splitter, under carriage, suspensions.
They are reasonable touring cars and this is how they should be, and this is also the reason for their charm and appeal.

It resembles with mom's reasonably priced humble Lacetti, tuned for real official racing, and better than an M3 on the track.
You gotta love that.


When it comes to GT though, it's a different story.

Try MMG Formula 1 mod in rFactor, for example. You can downshift violently from 6th gear straight to 3rd, and still got away with it.
Try doeing that in WTCC or even in GT's.
Watching real videos of real F1 will also reveal those cars are extremely stable under heavy, hard, violent braking.



So it's all up to the class and the limits and regulations imposed.
You can do extreme things with the speed and the handling of a racing car without FIA regulations.

 

[Mikkow]

Don't forget the in-game brake bias that can be adjusted on the fly to get the behaviour you want during braking.

 

[Daniel Pettit]

Overall they seem alot better to me, the GT cars feel like powerful but heavy race cars, which compared to the single seaters we all race noirmally, they are.

 

[Mike Coleman]

Interview with Marc Hennerici, Winner of the 2005 WTCC Independence Trophy:

(translated)

For me, Race07 the absolute reference in the field of physics. I am the same car, as I did in the simulation cycle, real driven and must admit that the behaviour is exactly the same way as in the simulation....

I play GTR2 example, no longer, because the difference of GTR2 to Race07 what the depth of feeling are driving has been huge and I now have no desire more in comparison to this rather oberflächige driving sense of GTR2.

German Interview:

Ansichten eines Profis: Marc Hennerici über Race07 und das wahre Leben

Google Translation:

Translated version of http://racersleague-aktuell.santelco.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=210:ansichten-eines-profis-marc-hennerici-ueber-race07-und-das-wahre-leben&catid=45:wtcc-masters&Itemid=115

 

[Jarkko Rantajoki]

Ive had to make a test since this game has felt very arcadish to me from the start.

So i decided to try it with a gamepad.
Within 10 laps of setting the controller and adjusting the setup a bit, i made a pb time with the GT class (driving mid-ohio, just had done 30+ laps using my G25+finnmotion pedals), no other aids but autoclutch.. not to mention i didnt feel in any way being disadvantaged by the gamepad..

 

[Jarkko Rantajoki]

Interview with Marc Hennerici, Winner of the 2005 WTCC Independence Trophy:

(translated)German Interview:

Ansichten eines Profis: Marc Hennerici über Race07 und das wahre Leben

Google Translation:

Translated version of http://racersleague-aktuell.santelco.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=210:ansichten-eines-profis-marc-hennerici-ueber-race07-und-das-wahre-leben&catid=45:wtcc-masters&Itemid=115

What else could he say being a driver in that series?

(ah apparently he doesnt drive in it anymore)

 

[Mike Coleman]

Ive had to make a test since this game has felt very arcadish to me from the start.

So i decided to try it with a gamepad.
Within 10 laps of setting the controller and adjusting the setup a bit, i made a pb time with the GT class (driving mid-ohio, just had done 30+ laps using my G25+finnmotion pedals), no other aids but autoclutch.. not to mention i didnt feel in any way being disadvantaged by the gamepad..

I don't believe you.

 

[Jarkko Rantajoki]

I don't believe you.

Did it on the server with 10 fellow Simjunkies members and im fairly sure i have the replay too (its obvious from the replay wheel is not used) so im not without evidence.

 

[Mike Coleman]

I meant I don't believe that you felt no disadvantage. If you think it's arcade, that's fine. But I think you are exaggerating to prove your point.

 

[Mikkow]

I wonder what comments you all may have about the following article (if you haven't read it already) : Simbin, ISI and the State of Sim Racing VirtualR - Sim Racing News - It doesn't talk about GTRe sadly, but it is about Race 07. I don't know if everyone here read it yet.

An excerpt from WTCC driver, Enduro GT/Sportscar(?) driver, and sim-racer Pierre Yves Corthals (from that article):

“I had played GTR1 a lot because my Viper Belmondo and the Ferrari JMB that I had for the 24Hours of Spa were included in the game. It was nice to be able to drive my cars in a game, but I had no sensations with the driving, even if, at that time, GTR1 was a big step forward in the world of racing simulators.

When Race07 was released, I immediately tried my WTCC Seat. It goes without saying that the evolution between GTR1 and Race07 is extraordinary because at last, we can feel something when driving. And moreover, there is grip, which GTR1 lacked a lot! But it’s not perfect yet and quite far from it, actually. There’s still a huge difference between the real grip and the one we have in Race07, but all in all, it is much better now, even if a real WTCC car will be much more bonded to the road. For instance, it’s quite surprising to see how easy it is to block the wheels when braking. Normally, you almost never do, even when you brake a bit late. It happens quite often in the game, in my opinion.

Apart from that, the rest of the behaviour is relatively quite accurate. The corner speeds are the same, more or less, as well as the way you enter a corner: where you just release the right pedal without braking, you can do the same in the game without problem. On this matter, it is quite realistic. The track models are just perfect, except maybe Porto, which is really strange in the game, but anyway, it’s an excellent work. I used approx the same gearbox settings in the game than I did in real at Macau. In fact, playing Race07 is a very good training when you have to learn a track before a race week-end!

On the visual level, the least I could say is that it is really well done! It’s quite logical because they were present on every race in 2006 and 2007 and they were taking pictures of everything, all the time: the steering wheels, the suits, the gloves, absolutely everything! They asked us to try different versions of the game during the WTCC season, asking for our feedback, it was really cool! And the sounds are very well done too! They have put recording devices in our cars to help them making the sounds for the game. Hum… by the way, I think they might have made a mistake because my Seat sounds like a Honda! (Laughs)

It is pretty obvious that on a psychological dimension, it has nothing to do with the reality any more. Because racing in a game is nice and all, but in reality, you’ve got the pressure, the real contacts with cars and walls, the sponsors behind you that you must not disappoint, the objectives, your contract… Those things you don’t have to cope with in the game!

When I first played Race07, I realised that it’s the game you learn to handle. Not the car. The controls not being 100% the same than in reality (pedals, steering wheels, speed sensations, for example), it requires a big amount of practise before you can get the same results than in a real car. You have to play a lot before being able to estimate accurately the speed at which you’re going to enter the next corner.

About the car setup, I’ve already tried to use the exact same one I was using in reality and to be honest, I was quite puzzled not to feel any significant change. For instance, the differential setting of the car seems a bit useless in the game where it should actually change the behaviour more radically. If you decrease it, the car will turn much more easily when you release the brakes and when you accelerate at the corner exit. This means less understeer! In the game, I didn’t feel the change I was expecting on a traction car like the Seat.

But I must acknowledge that I don’t really play a lot, as I don’t really have time for it! I can hardly play two hours a month, so my opinion is somehow incomplete as I have not sufficiently learned to handle the game to feel the effects of those setup changes.”

 

[Mike Coleman]

An excerpt from WTCC driver and sim-racer Pierre Yves Corthals (from that article):

“It goes without saying that the evolution between GTR1 and Race07 is extraordinary because at last, we can feel something when driving. And moreover, there is grip, which GTR1 lacked a lot!"

:amen:

That's 2 real drivers saying Race 07 has the best driving physics so far.

 

[Alex Maresta]

i think meaby i-racing is the best physic at the moment but the next is gtr-evo.

 

[Jarkko Rantajoki]

I meant I don't believe that you felt no disadvantage. If you think it's arcade, that's fine. But I think you are exaggerating to prove your point.

I felt at first its bit hard to be as smooth, but got over it with couple adjustments.