GT3 RS over/understeer problems in rFactor

[taita87]

I have a huge problem...95% of mods in rfactor does not give me any oversteer or understeer effect on force feedback...

People with a driving force gt (130€ with pedals!!) are happy with its ffb effects and I can't get any feedback while driving....If the car is understeering in a turn, the ffb strenght doesn't change, and with the oversteer i have the same issue... I tried to change almost every parameter in controller.ini but nothing change (indeed nothing change in a better way).

Does anyone had the same problem? Does anyone have a solution? it's incredible...

I tried driver 142, 144 and older ones... and firmware 681, 750b...same behavior...

Only 1 mod in my experience gave me some under-oversteering feedback, a f1 mod made by a real f3 driver that worked to make it as realistic as he can. I got some feedback, not that much I have to say, but at least I got something in my hands...

no one experienced the same issue?
It's like...it's like there's some force that override tire grip loss...and I get the same force with 100% grip or during oversteering...I tried leo's, realfeel plugin and nothing changed..with the f1 mod I was talking above, for example, real feel plugin and leo's override tire grip effects on ffb, resulting in the same issue, and I need to remove those plugins to feel a decent ffb...
In my current mod, f1 1990, I tried the plugins and removed them, no change in tire grip feelings...
Changing some values in the controller.ini something happens:
- FFB Gain="0.98621" // Strength of Force Feedback effects. Range 0.0 to 1.0.
I get a strong and nice ffb with higher values, decreasing it I lost almost all the forces (not at all, but the remaining forces are so subtle I cannot feel them)
- FFB steer force exponent="0.80000" // Steering force output "sensitivity". Range 0.0 to infinity. 0.0 to 1.0 = higher sensitivity, greater than 1.0 = lower sensitivity.
Increasing it I lost all feedbacks..
- FFB steer force input max="-11500.00000" // Recommended: 11500 (-11500 if controller pulls in the wrong direction).
FFB steer force output max="1.80000" // Maximum force output of steering force, recommendation 0.8 to 2.0
Don't know what to do with them...and i frankly doubt they change something helpful
- FFB steer force grip function="0.60000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0 (previous hardcoded value was 1.0) - lower values will make steering force decrease LATER as front tire grip is lost - try 0.3
FFB steer force grip weight="0.90000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.4 to 0.9. How much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering force.
FFB steer force grip factor="0.60000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.2 to 0.6 (previously hardcoded to 0.4). How much of a factor the front wheel grip is on the steering weight.
FFB steer front grip fract="0.00000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0 (previous hardcoded value was 0.0), additional effect of front grip loss on steering force
The gold lines...I usually use the function at 1.0, I need the force to decrease instantly when i lose grip...second and third values are fantastic...I can't feel the mass transfer through ffb, neither the rear grip...I MUST set them all to the tire grip and all to the front grip...at least this is what i've done with the f1 mod which gave me some tire info...




I tried Realfeel plugin with default FFB compeltely disabled (by FFB steer force output max="0.00000" in the controller.ini) but I did not notice any difference in the ffb strenght...NOTHING!

Only realfeel, no leo's installed:
[#15 Mauricio Gugelmin]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=-4000.000000
SteeringDamper=39800.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=90.000000
FrontGripEffect=0.000000
SmoothingLevel=1
Kf=4.000000
Ks=7.000000
A=3.500000
Kr=10.000000


I changed the damper to 11000, smoothing to 0 and FFBMixer to 100 but nothing changend (in better)... My wheel dampening setting is 0%

I changed the frongripeffect from 0 to 1 and ok, something's wrong... frontgrip 1 and no understeer at all... frontgrip 2 and crazy movement at mid turn: in a right turn, when I steer to the right the ffb pull all along to the right side (instead of still pull to the left)...

Furthermore, I can change these settings

MaxForceAtSteeringRack=-4000.000000 (realfeel.ini)

FFB steer force input max="-11500.00000" (controller.ini)

into these settings

MaxForceAtSteeringRack=4000.000000 (realfeel.ini)

FFB steer force input max="11500.00000" (controller.ini)

without finding any difference, apart from crazy wheel movement at 0mph ONLY with the latter...

Anyway, frontgripeffect isn't affecting the understeer...This is something strange


I also tried to look at the motec force at steering rack and adjusted the realfeel value to match these graphics. This is a complete lap in mexico 1990:

I got a massive oversteer in turn 3 with the car snapping and stopping to 0 km/h.
This is the zoomed part of the graph in the right instant when the car loses its grip (max Km/h before decreasing hilighted, look at the drop in the right tire load):

And this is right after where you can see the speed is decreasing on the right box (ground speed):

Did anyone experience the same issue? Did someone have rfactor and a gt3 rs to test if it's my own wheel problem, my own controller.ini problem or something else...or if it's just rfactor that doesn't match to fanatec / gt3 products?

 

[Marian Zelenka]

I have Race 07 and I'm not very happy with its FFB. It feels strange, dull, similar to your description. On the other hand GSC 2012 works good. The same engine, just with real feel plugin. iRacing or Net Kar Pro is a different story, absolutely no problem. It's a bummer.

Do you use drift mode? I use "4" as a default because the wheel is otherwise too slow and unrealistic to turn. It tends to also emphasize FFB. Normal setup without drift mode kills FFB somehow.

 

[taita87]

I tried drift 1... But up from 2 it becomes undrivable...if I turn a bit to the right, the drift pull the wheel a lot to the right making your steering not surgically perfect...do you understand? Add the problem of under/oversteering effect not available at all and my driving would become totally crazy...

I don't know

 

[Marian Zelenka]

I use fw 681 and driver 115. I got used to that drift mode. It took a while, but I did and like it more. Race 07 is undrivable for me without it, can't save spinning car because wheel feels clumsy. The wheel is constructed as it is, can't fight with it...

I'd been trying to improve FFB for a good while and then just didn't bother anymore. Nothing worked.

 

[Warren Dawes]

I got use to that drift mode. It took a while, but I did and like it more. Race 07 is undrivable for me without it, can't save spinning car because wheel feels clumsy. The wheel is constructed as it is, can't fight with it...

Same experience for me. I had to use Drift Mode (setting 3) or I was way too slow in any corrections. I tried lots of settings to help get rid of it, but ended up accepting it.
I use mine mainly in GTL and RBR.

I did finally find an acceptable FFB Profile for GTL after making many adjustments to my G25 Settings. It's in the GTL Forum but may not be applicable to rF.

 

[taita87]

did the ffb effects improve with rfactor 2?

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

I drive race07, GTL, iRacing and GSC with the same settings on my GT3 (apart from rotation differences), I've never even tried drift mode, and I'm happy with my wheel in all of the games. That said maybe I'm missing out on something, maybe I've never felt what Marian and others feel is missing.

 

[Marian Zelenka]

When I started using "drift mode" my lap times improved rapidly. It also all depends on game how it handles it. Saving car in R07 is a nightmare when your steering seems to stiffen instead of lighten. Total opposite of GSC. Other sims are also better. If the game isn't able to return your wheel to the center without fake spring effect, then it's rubbish. And steering shouldn't feel like being welded all the time.

Don't forget there are also different firmwares and they don't feel the same. The problem with Fanatec is that they aren't able to come up with good drivers. They are always beta with problems so we are stuck with the official fw 681 and 115 driver. They are "working" (feels like half of a century or millenia now) on better feel and also added 500 Hz update rate.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

I just did some laps testing with and without the drift mode. No matter which mode, I'm not getting the same feel of "loss of ffb" when oversteering as I do in say iRacing (where on the other hand it might be a bit overdone imo, but gives a great feel for when you've lost traction). But I have to agree that it's far easier to correct oversteer with drift mode on than without. Wheel feels a bit looser while driving, but not to an extent where it feels like a non-FFB wheel, and the result was that I actually felt the little bumps and rattles far more. Consider me a driftmode-convert, thanks Marian.

Edit: Ohh and I didn't improve my time using it yet, but it increased my immersion and feel for the car, so I can see myself improving with it. Gonna have a go at some other cars and tracks with it as well.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

I tried drift 1... But up from 2 it becomes undrivable...if I turn a bit to the right, the drift pull the wheel a lot to the right making your steering not surgically perfect...do you understand? Add the problem of under/oversteering effect not available at all and my driving would become totally crazy...

I don't know

If the wheel pulls in the direction of the corner it's usually because you need to invert the FFB, but considering the graphs and math you threw out in the first post I'm guesing you knew that
Be mindful about background applications too! The other day I booted up Race 07 and it the FFB felt SO WEIRD, it was almost non-exsistent, but the little which was there felt very very weird. I was googling like crazy and itt turned out to be Raptr running in the background (the IM gametracker whatever program from raptr.com), luckily some other guy had posted about him finding the same thing on a forum somewhere

 

[Marian Zelenka]

I read that one GT3 user tested newer wheels and they were "lighter" and faster. I think they also said it on insidesimracing. The wheel kills lots of FFB and effects without drift mode. I'm not the only one that is "stucked" with drift mode. Luckily, only 5th presset is full drift mode. Just set your FFB accordingly. I'd like to buy Clubsport wheel someday, but with their way of doing business, I don't know.

I'm Windows 8 user and have to restart system before I drive because it never really shuts itself down as previous versions when I turn it off. All stucked processes may be still there. Otherwise I experience troubles sometimes.

 

[taita87]

I have not the wheel till wednesday, you could try this, maybe this is the solution http://f-wheel.com/forums/index.php/topic,1767.0.html

 

[Marian Zelenka]

I've tried running it with Logitech drivers and didn't like it. Maybe people that were previously using Logitech wheels like it. Otherwise I have no idea why are they so happy about it.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

I tried but couldnt get the wheel into PS3 mode no matter what I tried >< (i didnt try uninstalling the driver though)

 

[Marian Zelenka]

You can't do it without uninstalling drivers as far as I know.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

Ok ill test that some day then. Again, thanks for the drift setting, improved my driving in RRRE immediately!

 

[taita87]

really? anyway, I solved it switching to a g25

 

[William Levesque]

After hearing all the general issues and "un-friendliness" of those about the Fanatecs, I'm happy with my G27 !

Only reason I'd get a Fanatec would be for the Xbox, if ever Forza 5 is bombastic

 

[taita87]

the unhappyness it's just regarding the ffb simulative aspect. The wheel itself it's perferct, nice and with a really smooth ffb. You will not miss what I'm saying with forza 5, f1 2012 by codemaster and so on...