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GPL people driving AMS?

Discussion in 'Automobilista' started by Kevin Knorpp, Sep 2, 2016.

  1. Sorry just have to ask because, being a 60s F1 specialist, I'm seeing some awesome 60s F1 driving in MP AMS. These people have to be GPL'ers. Don't they?

    rF2 was my hope. But AMS has delivered on 60s F1 for me.

    So question 1 is, where are these awesome drivers coming from?

    Question 2 is, do I need to get GPL?

    Question 3 is, has ISI ever updated any of their historic content?

    What is going to be the GPL successor or do I need to just get GPL? But I can't see messing with anything that is not as good as AMS for immersion because AMS is so awesome.

    But I have to wonder...will AMS be the new GPL? And if not there must be a reason to the only conclusion I can draw is that I need to get GPL. Unless all these awesome drivers are from GPL and its imminent that AMS is going to be the new GPL?
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  2. Something would be very wrong if a sim produced in 2016, albeit with an ageing engine, isn't better in many respects than a sim produced in the previous century, even if the efforts of modders has improved GPLs original graphics beyond all recognition.

    However, in GPL I can race against Jim Clark in his Lotus 49, Dan Gurney in his Eagle, Jack Brabham in his BT24, Jochen Rindt in his Cooper T81, John Surtees in his Honda RA300, Jackie Stewart in hiis BRM P115 and Chris Amon in his Ferrari 312, on the tracks used for the 67 F1 season. And I can do the same for 1965, 1966, 1968 and 1969.

    I can't do this in AMS so IMO AMS isn't going to be the new GPL, any more than the inclusion of the Formula Extreme makes AMS the new Grand Prix 4 or even the new F1 2016.

    GPL is incredibly immersive but in different ways to AMS. The game menus are very evocative of the 60s - something that can't be said of AMS. On track there are no start lights but a man dropping a flag. The pitboard gives you data not about your last llap but about the lap before that because that's how it was back then. You don't look at a HUD to remind you which gear you are in - you can look at the position of the gear-lever. The cars are not performance-balanced generic representations of a 60s F1 car but detailed, lovingly produced replicas of the real thing. If you drive a Lotus 49 in GPL you know you are driving a Lotus 49. The GPL 69 F1 cars are not simply the 67 cars with wings stuck on.

    However, my viewpoint is influenced by the fact I'm not an on-line racer. An on-line racer such as yourself will have different priorities, as you are probably not trying to recreate the 1967 F1 championship.
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  3. To be fair if you went far enough you could get something pretty close in AMS, not necessarily the menu but the championship and car skins. I'm sure you could find most GPL tracks that have been ported to rfactor and bring them over to AMS (granted they wont look very good) but its possible. You could also go ahead and paint all the cars as liveries back then were very simple as well as making talent files relatively quickly.

    Now this is just more of a personal opinion but all 60s F1 cars look exactly the same to me. The only way I would be able to tell if it was a Ferrari was if it was painted red, same thing applies to a Lotus etc.

    Now I've never played GPL, but I doubt someone is going to play it now because it is the most accurate simulator but more of a nostalgic experience.
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  4. 1) Looking forward to being able to play to race them!

    2) Try the GPL 2004 demo. Search for it online, it's not official

    3) Nope

    GPL is old and there's no easy central place with easy updates. Often there are forum posts lost in a page somewhere that contain an update to some content, and certain very specific updates to an area of the game may not work for everyone. But still it's the only packaged classic F1 experience with the tracks and drivers (with updates), with a great atmosphere. Setups are exploitable but offline you'll be ok. Just see if you can see yourself enjoying that fan demo.
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  5. alexSchmurtz

    Premium Member

    I was also curious to read what people used to GPL would think of the 67s in AMS. Yes, we could (and probably will, once the template are released) get a full set with real names and real schemes but it will never be as authentic, I understand this now from @David Wright 's post. (I guess the UI could also be modded; I'm a big fan of the PnG UI…). So far it is very civilized and I hope it will stay like this, but what about the driving? It must certainly be different, and this is tricky: once you love a game and drive it for more than 10 years, no other can reach the same enjoyment I guess… So not talking about a GPL 2 anymore. Does a die hard GPL fan find some pleasure in AMS with the 67? Will you keep driving both or are you already back to GPL?
    Thank you for this thread and the feedbacks! (keep them coming please!) :)
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  6. Very helpful guys, thanks. I appreciate the history and the game value of GPL but mostly just love how 60s F1 cars drive and find many of the existing AMS tracks to be great combos already. So I'm going to pass on GPL but its nice to see folks enjoying themselves out there and if they turn out to be GPL'ers that make a switch and start bringing content to AMS/Reiza2017 then all the better :)
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  7. Jake Fangio

    Jake Fangio
    Please don't rain pleeaassee don't rain

    I would also be interested if any GPL guys have driven these Vintage cars and how they find them.
  8. GPL has the advantage that every single car has different handling and power; BRM and Honda are way too heavy, Cooper is underpowered, Brabham and Ferrari are decent middleground, Eagle has the highest top speed, and Lotus is the fastest overall, but also the hardest to drive. On one side you can say it's unfair, on the other it adds alot of realism, depth and personal preference to the mix.Also it has all the tracks for the 67 calendar - I never really cared too much about recreating championships and offline racing, but for some people that is all they want.

    Otherwise I'm liking the handling of the vintages - unlike AC, they feel much less civilised, theres certain roughness and unpredictability, especially in the drivetrain.
    Unfortunately the suspension animations are even worse than in GPL :( Why are the front linkages moving separately form the tires?
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. since when is gpl the pinnacle and a benchmark in realism
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  10. It depends what you want to achieve. If you just want to simulate driving a 60s F1 car,it would be strange if offerings from iRacing, ISI, SMS, Kunos and now Reiza, didn't improve on something produced at least a decade previously. But IMO that doesn't make them a sequel to or replacement for GPL which lets you simulate a 60s F1 championship, This is where GPL is the pinnacle and benchmark in realism.
  11. REM1976

    @ Simberia @Simberia

  12. REM1976

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    GPL was just a sensational sim. So difficult, but the sense of reward when you did a decent lap was huge. With Geoff Crammond's F1GP, it was to sim racing what the Beatles is to music.

    iRacing is built on GPL
  13. REM1976

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    It is the benchmark. Each car had it's own character, from the mental Eagle, to the ferocious Ferrari and the humble Cooper, it was sim racing perfection.

    The circuits were also modelled perfectly, with even the full Nordschliefe modelled in a pc game like never before, an unprecedented achievement back in the 1990s.

    If you don't know GPL, try it.
  14. REM1976

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    Not strictly true. The 1967 F1 championship ran a race at the Le Mans Bugatti circuit, sensibly swapped for Rouen in GPL.
  15. REM1976

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    I find the AMS 67 cars much easier to drive than GPL. Obviously never having driven a 1967 F1 car, I don't know which is more accurate.

    This video might help
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  16. reiza never claimed to simulate a whole season, so i thougt the op was about how these cars drive. as far as gpl, i really dont have that much time trying to learn how to keep on track these cars that were build fundamentally wrong. papyrus mistakes in physics modelling, setups, physics lut's etc have been exhaustively discussed at rsc back in the day
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  17. REM1976

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    GPL modelled the cars to the individual teams

    AMS is more like wobbly, dodgy car = 1967 Lotus
    • Haha Haha x 1
  18. GTSpeedster

    FOV Geek Premium Member

    I'm yet to try the new formula vintage by Reiza so I can't really comment on that, unless if to say that I'm confident it's going to be great as everything Reiza does.

    But despite being GPL fan and a former driver as well, I feel I need to say that the best experience you can get - in my humble opinion - in regards to the 60's F1 has got to be at rFactor along with the recently released/updated 1965 F1 CROMS mod and its trackpack. It doesn't have the same charm GPL does but it drives like

    Again, I haven't driven the new automobilista's versions but I'll be extremely surprised if it drives better than the CROMS' one.

    You guys should check it out even if only to dismiss it (which I doubt you will be able to).

    Cheers! :thumbsup:
  19. Kenny Paton

    Kenny Paton
    Backmarker Champion 2015 & so far this year. Staff Premium Member

    Although off topic I've got to agree that if you don't want to install GPL then Croms mod is probably the nearest thing to it. It's one of only three rF1 mods I have left on my hard drive. With the trackpack and UI it's pretty atmospheric.
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  20. xoph

    Premium Member

    That was then, but this is now... I am not sure if one can compare them without getting injust. As others have said, GPL had that 60s look and feel, and GPL had all cars with different car behavior. GPL had a fantastic online racing scene, and the online module was built by the community, Allison Hine, her bother, and others. Plenty of leagues with noteworthy grid ran into the 2000s. This was my initiation to online racing. The netcode was pretty good, maybe even on par with today given that the drivers' internet connection usually did not have the bandwidth we have today. But the GPL physics as good as they were, are what they are, 20 years old. There was nothing with tires e.g., setup changes were not that responsive, damages were pretty much on or off, no in-betweens, etc. And do no forget that heel-toe shifting was neither a word known nor a technology of any use (and clutches were not a standard on pedals), not even blipping was used. Trail braking was basically someting natural because it seemed part of the program code. The tracks were far from laser coded, or based on as much data as developers have today. Apart from setting the stage for road racing online which is apart from the game mostly thanks to the community which started from their shared enthusiasm and went further, not only with modding hundreds of tracks or other F1 series. GPL set the stage and opened up a whole universe for many - back then, and as it was the first, the myth grows, deservedly, but that does not make it fit for today.
    So I would not compare it to GPL. But the Brabham in rf2 is nothin that evolves feelings of GPL (lackmof grip,and overtorquing does nit make a 60s car), the Lotus 49 in iracing is just a study in the course How Can I Create a Beast. The 67 car in AMS is something that can be gradually driven to the limits, with techniques that were used and make sense. The grip levels are completely different, and probably more realistic. The torque curve is als different and probably more realistic. On the road from GPL AMS have imho made a fantastic job, maybe even gave a demonstration of the state of the art, esp. when compared to the iracing Lotus 49 which was made by those who made GPL, but on a then outdated engine.

    I just wish there were more competetive online racing available in AMS, in any series (for me e.g. rather in SV8, that unbelievable great car in AMS, so good that a claustrophobic driver as I am just smile when driving it).
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2016
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