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Get FFB similar to Assetto Corsa?

Discussion in 'RaceRoom Racing Experience' started by Lars Rystedt, Apr 18, 2017.

  1. Lars Rystedt

    Lars Rystedt
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    Hi!

    Before I began play AC I thought R3E FFB was fantastic and RF2 utterly crap but now I am not so sure anymore.
    I have a G920 and for almost every car I've turned down the FFB but I still feel that the wheel is stiff and loosing out on effects. This is particularly noticable when I loose grip during understeer, in AC I can feel when getting closer to loose while in R3E it's mostly a screach from the tires when it's already to late.. And that's about it, theres no real sensation when or why I loose grip; it just happened a split second ago and now it's to late.

    I would like the ease of steering while still feel the road as in AC but the FFB settings in R3E is giving me nightmares, most probably because I don't understand what every option do or how the affect each other.

    So if any have a simple solution and instruction how and what to change, I would appreciate it a lot.
     
  2. Kurupt CDN

    Kurupt CDN
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    I dont have a G920 nor play AC enough to compare the 2, but all the effects you mention i feel very well with the stock thrustmaster tx stock profile.....think the only adjustments i made was raised the lateral forces from 50-55% and lowered smoothing to 5%.
    Sounds to me like your wheel rotation might be off or ffb is set to high and your clipping? Is it set to 900 with automatic wheel rotation enabled ingame?
    Heres a link with ffb explanations.
    https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads/ffb-guide.55/
     
  3. Lars Rystedt

    Lars Rystedt
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    Thank you for your reply but I must admit I am at a loss in this. I apologise for the long text coming, I was testing and typing, then testing and typing...

    I usually used about 500 degrees wheel rotation but changed it to 900. The only real difference is that I need to twist my shoulders out of the sockets in especially slow turns. I'm sure that can be overcome with use of throttle and brakes somehow, but it's over my ability for now.

    On my hud I always have the FFB meter visible and for most parts (straights) it shows things happening at the lowest bar, however at it's best I feel a jolt in the wheel.
    In corners the FFB meter goes up and if any individual cars FFB multiplier is left at default I get maximum clipping in every corner so that is usually the first thing I have to change.
    To get somewhat default setting I made a new profile and chose the Opel Omega car which I never driven.

    One of the things I noticed is that a lot of strength in the wheel is to center it, ie I have to fight the wheel into the corners while exiting fight it not to snap into center to fast.
    Great for going in a straight line I suppose but it seems there is some of my problems right there.

    I disabled Inverted Force Feedback because why not, nothing else seem to work.
    Now the wheel is a LOT smoother to operate and I think the FFB comes through more but I cannot be sure.
    Because now I cannot drive in a straight line without the wheel jolts to either direction irrationally to then change to the other shortly after, there no bump in the road I can feel. It just happens... and the entire car is moving sideways. I feel the wheels motor working when center and it wants to push in any direction but centered.

    Another thing now is that when cornering the wheel wants to turn itself all the way in whatever direction I am going to. There is nothing smooth exiting corners at all, I have to fight the wheel all the time.
    If I provoce oversteer with a wheel spin theres next to almost impossible to countersteer, the wheel is fighting me.

    Help.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  4. Lars Rystedt

    Lars Rystedt
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    .
     
  5. Chris Sercombe

    Chris Sercombe

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    No car needs 900, 540 or less is fine.
     
  6. Lars Rystedt

    Lars Rystedt
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    No I agree but that wasn't my real problem. I've spent most of the day and evening reading on S3 forums, testing, read more, test more but my problem persists. I get no detail at all so I never know when I am getting close to loosing grip or when I get it back. This is true for braking aswell, it's either braking or locking and I can't feel the difference. I don't think it has always been like this but I am not sure or when it changed.


    The LGS for G920 doesn't give many options, more or less only two: centering spring strength (which ive turned all off now) and a tick box allowing a games setting to override LGS options. That box was ticked so the centering spring strength should have been 0 as that was the option in-game, but for that to happen I actually had to turn it all down in LGS aswell. So now the I don't have to fight the wheel to enter corners so that's a step forward.
    I got the tip to kill LGS and the effect was marginal, thanks though was worth a try :(
     
  7. jimortality

    jimortality
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    Search the forum for Logitech G920 and you'll find a few threads with help for that wheel.
     
  8. tlsmikey

    tlsmikey

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    You should play around with the vertical force as well as the steering vs tire setting. I'm guessing you are at 100% steering which is default. You may prefer 50/50 or in some cases less to get a better feel from the tires. The downside to this is that you get a lot of additional feedback that isn't normally present.
     
  9. Martin Fiala

    Martin Fiala
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    That shouldn't happen I don't think, no twisting shoulders out of their sockets should be necessary. Does the rotation of the virtual wheel correspond 1:1 to your real wheel if you set the wheel to 900 in the Logitech control panel? Do you have the wheel set as "match setup" in game? When you go to car setup menu and then to steering, can you see the wheel rotation of the given car there with the ability to change it instead of it saying "N/A"?

    Individual FFB multiplier should IMO be the last thing to touch after you have everything else dialed in, just to finetune the amount of FFB for given car.
    Can you maybe take a screenshot of how your FFB meter looks like at straights and in the corner? As for the corners, to avoid clipping, I had to set spring and damper pretty low (meaning I disable them in Logitech panel and usually in the game as well). Also the lateral forces tend to saturate the FFB quite a lot while cornering, so that's also something you might want to check. With spring disabled, I can set it to around 50-60 percent without any major clipping, but add a little spring on top and it quickly oversaturates the wheel. I'm on DFGT, mind you, so your wheel might be slightly different (though all Logitech wheels are generally very similar AFAIK when it comes to forces).

    This doesn't sound right at all. You should immediatelly notice if you get Inverted FFB right or wrong - it does exactly what it says on the tin, meaning that it just inverts all of the forces (so wheel pulls to the left when it should be pulling to the right etc.) I believe all Logitech wheels need Inverted FFB enabled.
     
  10. Kurupt CDN

    Kurupt CDN
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    Have you installed the latest Logitech driver for your wheel?
    http://support.logitech.com/en_us/product/g920-driving-force
    In regards to the wheel degree of rotation you should have it set to 900 in your logitech profile
    Ingame: automatic wheel rotation on
    And set to match wheel rotation
    With automatic wheel rotation selected it will automatically select the rl steering rotation for the car selected..... A large portion of the cars have 540 or less degrees of rotation, for those that have larger degrees of rotation you can change them manually in the car setup/steering setup.
     
  11. Chris Sercombe

    Chris Sercombe

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    So is this right, i know on my old G25 you had to set reverse feedback in games like Gtr 2, is the below the same thing ?

    I believe all Logitech wheels need Inverted FFB enabled.
     
  12. RasmusP

    RasmusP
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    So after I optimized Assetto Corsa for almost a week I went over to R3E to get it also ready for a rookie event. So of course, I also want the same FFB-feeling!

    1. You need the newest driver! R3E changelog goes something like that "in order to get Logitech Wheels to work with our new update, you have to update your wheel to get "automatic degree setting" and overall ffb effects without failure"

    2. After you have done that: Logitech Profiler like that please: G27_Profiler.JPG
    (Overall strength 100%, Damper 0%, Spring 0% center-spring 0% ; game can adjust settings, 900°)

    3. The global steering options in R3E don't have a degree option, but every car has! If everything is fine the visual wheel should move exactly like your real wheel! You let your real wheel on 900° and R3E knows that you have a 900° wheel so R3E will calculate the transition to for example 540° in an Audi TT Cup! VISUAL WHEEL EXACTLY LIKE REAL WHEEL or something is wrong!

    4. Check "invert FFB" in R3E! I tried it out (because every other game doesn't need to invert anything!) and instead of centering on straights your wheel goes crazy... so CHECK INVERTED FFB!

    5. When these 4 points are correct than you can tweak your FFB settings in detail. For knowing which settings does what read here: LINK
    On Page 2 I explained how the FFB-Meter works:
    "The ffb meter doesn't show The clipping of your wheel engine but of the inGame ffb range. I had high clipping so I lowered the ffb intensity to 30%. Wheel didn't have any resistance and I felt nothing but The clipping stayed!
    So I lowered the other ffb parameters about 15% and I got no to mild clipping. I upped the overall strength back to 100% and had many more details as proposed.
    So mix the the settings to your liking but stay around or below the Red line! If you want to know what your wheel engine can do max: push the wheel Software (logitech profiler for example) to the max. I CAN'T EVEN HOLD THAT FORCE on my G27! "


    6. Here are MY settings which feel really good on the G27. The G920 should be similar to that I think:
    R3E_settings_1.JPG R3E_settings_2.JPG R3E_settings_3.JPG
    R3E_ffb_1.JPG R3E_ffb_2.JPG R3E_ffb_3.JPG
    Little explanation, sorry it's in german :/
    settings:
    - tempoabhängiges Lenken: 0, the min+max doesn't matter on a wheel! It's for controllers!
    - analog 1-3: for controllers! set to 0!
    - return multi: 0! for controllers!
    - steering sensivity: 20 I think for controllers again...
    - Throttle, Brake, Clutch sensivity: 50 I think they are fine, put them as mine! :)

    - Deadzones: you have a new G920. Put them to 0!
    - double shift protection: 0.05s should be enough
    - Deadzones again... 0!
    - "clutch trigger point": you don't have H-Shift, do you?

    Now the important settings:

    - Force Feedback: ON
    - Inverted FFB: ON
    - Gamepad-Vibration: off (for controllers)
    - FFB intensity: to your liking but for the G27: 100% are good!
    - Ausgleichen = smoothing: 0% gets you a little bit "rattling", 20% was way too smooth. For me 5% is nice!
    - FFB-Spring: 0% I think it's a canned effect so put it to 0!
    - FFB-Damping: your wheel get's smoother but also slower in response. I put it to 0!

    Now comes the real important stuff. These are my optimal settings without clipping. If you get clipping but it feels good: lower everything a little in this section!
    - intensity: 75%. With 100% I get heavy clipping and no details!
    - Minimum-Force: 19% well, for the G27 this is perfect. Start at 0 and raise this until you get rid of the dead-center-feeling
    - Understeer: 60% More is really unrealistic but at 60 you can feel it nicely
    - vertical load: it's how much you feel curbs and bumps on the road. I wanted it as high as possible without clipping: 95%!
    - Lateral force: if you put that too high you will feel nothing but the tyres but it feels really strange! 40% are enough
    - steering rack: so on 0% you will feel the raw-ffb from the car, on 100% you will get the same ffb as the wheel in a REAL car. So 100% feels like a real car but on 0% you get more details from the tyres and the care itself which is why I put that on 60%!

    - Slide effect: Canned effect when your car starts to slide. 3% gives you a little vibration, enough I think!
    - Engine-vibration: The G27 gets loud as hell... I think the sound is enough to know what your engines is doing! 0%!
    - curb-vibration: it's a little vibration effect when you drive on flat curbs which won't get you vertical-load. So 5% is enough to know you are on them!

    - Shift-Effect: I love this! You feel when the next gear kicks in with a little kick in the wheel. 30% are fine for me. Stronger is unrealistic and below that you don't feel it...

    You sound really frustrated so I hope this text is worth the time and you get back your fun with R3E :) For it's similar to AC with little different feeling. I love them both!
     
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  13. Brandon Wright

    Brandon Wright
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    First, make sure your steering sensitivity is set to 50 to ensure you're getting linear steering. If it's too heavy around center try turning down your vertical force, if it's too heavy in the turns try reducing the lateral force. I also recommend leaving your wheel at 900 and letting the game decide the rotation, if a certain car has too much or too little rotation for your tastes just adjust the steering lock in the steering setting tab in the car setup. I also highly recommend turning steering rack way down or off as you will get much more feedback from the wheel. Get the FFB dialed in with one car and once you're happy with it just use the FFB multiplier on other cars to adjust to taste. :thumbsup:
     
  14. Lars Rystedt

    Lars Rystedt
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    To begin, thank you for your inputs :) I will try to answer every questions above in here, so I'm sorry for the large chunk of text that's coming;

    Logitech software and G920:
    The software for G920 only have the spring value strength and wheel range that are adjustable, there is no more and that has been set to 0 and 900 degrees respectively. Any other setting has to be set in the game so Dampening was at 0. I also downloaded new drivers, there seem to be a new version early april. I noticed no difference after update so uninstalled and deleted old folders and did a fresh install of the LGS but it didn't change anything. With the spring value set to 0 (both in LGS and in-game) the wheel is much easier to handle, I don't have a full workout when it wants to center.

    Wheel Rotation Animation:
    In R3E settings I had Wheel Rotation animation to match and the wheel rotation had the value of greyed out 900.
    This is just an animation and has no real effect on the game, right? With this setting the animation showed a turning of only 45 degrees when I actually had turned it 90.
    When I changed the WRA to custom and Wheel rotation stayed at 900 the animation was consistent with the actual wheel, but again; this is just fluff or I missed something here? And I really have to turn the Corvette's wheel rotation down to about 400 and wheel lock up just to be able to take the corners at Nürnburgring and I still have to turn the wheel 180 degrees and more, and this is a problem I haven't really had before.

    Wheel rotation N/A:
    I had that problem right after my full reinstall of Windows and R3e, I couldn't find a cause or solution on S3 forums so I uninstalled R3E. After reinstallation that particular problem was gone and I haven't seen it since.

    Inverted FFB:
    Is again enabled, with the issue of spring strength solved in LGS this was also solved

    Shoulder Socket Popping:
    Still there and after just a few laps it does get really tiresome for the shoulders. Even in the long bends on Nürnburgring I need to rotate the wheel a lot, and I am pretty sure it's way more than in the past.

    Detail from the track:
    There is none, I can't feel a bump or when locking the wheels in a straight line. I turned head movement and things up just to be sure that there are things happening.
    I can see the car react, visual bobbing around but there is nothing coming to the wheel. And the FFB meter is at the bottom marker in straights showing that there are things happening but I don't know what.
    In corners the curve goes up as expectedly but the only sensation for me is that the wheel gets stiffer, nothing else. And it is below clipping, to have it clip I need to hit the curb or go of the track entirely. And this I can feel in the wheel. In fact, the shallow curbs I can feel and hear so I get great input from those but that's it's own setting I believe. And as in the straight line example, I can't feel a bump or when locking the wheels or loosing traction in the turn. So when I find out what happening it already has and I am to late.
    I can turn up minimum forces I think but that didn't really give any detail of the track, it merely gave more and sharp jolts from the wheel at straights.

    Screenshots:
    I got so frustrated so I uninstalled R3E and deleted the game folders... and the screenshots with them.
    Right now I am reinstalling it, hoping to get a truly default setting so I will have to get back to you about that.

    Jim, I scoured the S3 forums and tried every little thing I could stumble up on but nothing helped.

    For some reason there seem to be only more questions every time I think of it. But now I will have a break from it and letting the installation progress. Again, thanks for your inputs, I is most appreciated!
     
  15. Brandon Wright

    Brandon Wright
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    Make sure your steering sensitivity is at 50 (I believe this is in the Secondary Controls of the FFB menu?), that should help with the shoulder socket thing I'd think because you really shouldn't have to be turning the wheel that much. Turning down your steering rack should probably help you get more feeling from the road too.
     
  16. Lars Rystedt

    Lars Rystedt
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    Rasmus, the G920 software has no profiler like G25/27. The only settings I found is strength of spring which is now at 0, the wheel range set to 900 which is the maximum value and a tick box that should let games override settings in the Logitech software. Which I wonder if it's even working as the spring value is taken from LGS and not the in-game setting. The rest I will have a look at when it's reinstalled.

    Brandon, I'll have a look when it's installed. The vehicle setting is allowing me to change the wheel rotation if I choose custom in wheel rotation animation. Not sure if its a fluff setting or if its really changing the handling.
    When I started R3E I almost always changed each car's individual wheel rotation to something really low, not sure why now. But now I'm not so fond of it as the car gets jittery when turning into corners and more often than not have to countersteer not to spin. So for most part I have gone for something like 500-550 wheel rotation and only certain times change the wheel lock.
     
  17. Brandon Wright

    Brandon Wright
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    I'm 99% sure it's just fluff and only affects the on-screen wheel animation (which I have turned off in all sims).

    You really shouldn't ever have to manually change the rotation on any car. Leave everything at 900 and the game will decide for you based on what the car should have, if it's a little too twitchy or a little too vague just adjust the steering lock (not the steering rotation) for that car.
     
  18. RasmusP

    RasmusP
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    Wheel Rotation setting: due to the r3e patch and the newest logitech driver you can't change that! It is automatic! So your wheel and the visual are synchronous! So don't change the Rotation setting when you go into a session. Let it on "each car individual"!
    Then, and only then you can change the lock (I am not sure about the rotation) in the car setup. Not where you change the ffb multiplier (I find The defaults pretty good, but only if The global settings are good) but in the car setup.
    So your visual and the real wheel should always be synchronous and to change the "sensivity" you have to change the lock in the car setup! You can always check if everything is okay on the visual wheel. With the lock (I think...) you change the sensivity of the car, but the visual wheel will still be synchronous!
    I will wait for your reply when you are done reinstalling and if something still off I will switch R3E to english and give a Screenshots from every little setting till it's goddamn nice for you!
    Question: is assetto corsa still fine? Just to be sure the wheel is okay :)
     
  19. Brandon Wright

    Brandon Wright
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    On my copy the ffb multiplier for the car is in the same place as the steering lock and rotation, on the Steering Settings tab in the car setup.
     
  20. RasmusP

    RasmusP
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    Damn I am new to R3E and not at home at the moment. Sorry for the false Information. But I am glad we go confirm that He should NOT touch the Rotation and let it on "each car individual".
    Maybe you could explain what the steering lock exactly is? I never felt the need to change anything in that section...