Gentleman rule for cutting?

[Fredrik Tackman]

For future seassons we wil try to improve the add on tracks, asking mod experts to put the checkpoints in the correct place. I think it will be enough to grant a fair competition.

Is it maybe even possible to make curbs higher ?

 

[David Garcia]

Maybe it is, once the time comes I will ask about it Fred.

 

[Damian Henderson]

We have agreed inside the team, even before STC 1, that we don't cut, whatever other teams do.

Heh I remember some cutting from some of you guys last season , But for me it's not cutting as it's within the league rules and as long as we play within those rules then we are all playing fair and are on even terms.

 

[Damian Henderson]

I prefer how the rules are now and they shouldn't be changed at all, But getting the tracks changed so you can't do a blatent cut would be a very good idea

Ye, It would be easier to do that, just make the tracks punish you more, would mean the rules stay the same but the track punish you. But there's always the case of the innocent guys losing out to do sometimes, either being involved in an incident or having to avoid one to cut, thus them getting some drive thru for something not their fault.

It's a hot topic.

 

[Xosé Estrada]

I agree on improving the tracks, we can do our own track pack.

Meanwhile, for me "fair" means all racers are in same conditions, and honestly I think that can only happen using the simulator rules, because we can't review all drivers's laps and them some of them will get caught and some not.

About the example Andreas made, if a guy cuts to not being overtook getting a warning, ok, it's a dirty move, but then pressure him again and if he does the same he will get a Stop & Go, so bye bye for the rest of the race, I don't think is a big problem.

Cya!.

 

[Tom Ilsbroux]

Best it to modify the track so cutting doesn't give you and advantage. Higher curbs, "deeper gravel". Making the track to severe with cut warnings is frustrating, as the game also gives you a warning if you don't have an advantage. Nothing better to have the track in the way that the fastest line is on the black stuff .

Myself i never have had an issue with this as everyone is equal in this, racing is searching limits, both car and track.

hmm, and le-mans might be even more an issue here

 

[Damian Henderson]

Ye anti cut bumps are better, and deep gravel / grass, so a cut makes you loose time, rather then you can cut and get a warning, as those warning punish innocent driver's.

Of course we would need a experienced track guy for that though! But theres a few about around here.

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

tires

in LFS there are plenty of tires in all the right places and it really hurts your ride badly to kick them away. The nice thing is: they come back once the pack is past, so the leading guys suffer most, while for the guys in the back there sometimes is an open oportunity

 

[Neil Gault]

Ye anti cut bumps are better, and deep gravel / grass, so a cut makes you loose time, rather then you can cut and get a warning, as those warning punish innocent driver's.

Of course we would need a experienced track guy for that though! But theres a few about around here.

a few not so soft bollards pinched from lime rock and the problems is cured, just a ***** if you get pushed into one then it is game over :at-wits-end:

 

[Ivo Simons]

The poles from Le Mans 77 also work.

 

[David Garcia]

Guys, the solution to the problem is adjusting the checkpoints, trust me.

 

[Kevin Ascher]

, trust me.

Better don't


Seriously, I am not a friend of the idea of that gentlemen rule.
Not that we at RPM would like current situation, but much rather I think we would only add more room for being 'unfair' or not concerning the rules.
Cutting always has to be interpreted by the driver, e.g, When I think I've driven a chicane properly, Bram would say it was cutting.
So, in my opinion, we need the rules to be clearly defined and not just a cutting rule. Either a proper rule like 'always 2 tires between the white lines' whose following is watched by the Race Directors. Additionaly, I think really harsh checkpoints are a bad idea as well.
For example see how they are at Magny Cours in Race 07.
Technically, they are all okay but with that whole lot of critical turns, hardly anyone could make the race without a penalty even though they did their best not to cut.

 

[David Garcia]

Well, not that harsh, I really hate the checkpoints of Magny COurs or Monza in the roiginal game, but putting 4 wheels in the green and don´t receive a warning is to much.

There is an intermediate point that will satisfy everybody.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Heh I remember some cutting from some of you guys last season , But for me it's not cutting as it's within the league rules and as long as we play within those rules then we are all playing fair and are on even terms.

I am sure everybody pushes it too hard sometimes and a cut will happen then, but i am sure that none of our drivers cuts the entire race consequently, if so they would not be in the team as we have gentleman driving very high on our priority list.

Racing slick tyres are made to stay on the track Otherwise we should mount rally tyres on the cars if we like to dive into the grass.

Basically from organizing point of view I agree with David's clear link to the rules (simulator rules are followed), from a racing point a view i don't understand, while playing a simulation of the real thing, that people want to take that part of the gras jsut for those few tenths.

 

[David Garcia]

...from a racing point a view i don't understand, while playing a simulation of the real thing, that people want to take that part of the gras jsut for those few tenths.

And that is why we will adjust a bit the limits. When people is too competitive use to forget the gentleman stuff, so we will take care of putting the limits where they shoudl be, and it is 2 wheels on the racing surface.

 

[Tom Ilsbroux]

Look at real racing and you will see cutting, yes 4 tyers outside if it helps.
Not sure what isn't real about this.

Look monza, even F1 was cutting more last year then we could in the game. Now they have changed the track and cutting was gone last F1 race there.

Adding more warning isn't adding reality in my view, put up higher curbs, bollards, whatever, but adding warning is not the thing to do.
In wet with changeable weather guys do get outside without intent and they will get a warning and this is frustrating, the game doesn't take this into account. If you loose you car complety you get warning, unless the zone is large enough and you can slow down enough.

If you are going to change tracks then go the realistic way.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

the game doesn't take this into account.

The game does take this in account actually, if you go of track and you slow down you wont get a warning at all, but if you continue to go flatout yes then its a cut warning.

 

[Tom Ilsbroux]

The game does take this in account actually, if you go of track and you slow down you wont get a warning at all, but if you continue to go flatout yes then its a cut warning.

Thats why i said unless the zone is large enough and you can slow down. . If you go briefly outside you have no chance.

 

[David Garcia]

Well, anyway we will value both options. Higher kerbs or improved checkpoints will do the work same way.

The question is that we will take care of it.

Apart of the solution we decide, I would like to say thanks to Andreas for opening this interesting discussion. I really see the point he was trying to bring, and the gentelmant way of thinking he have. But when there is a competition, people will push always to the limits, and that is the reason why it is that important to have the limits in the correct place.

 

[Ben Tusting]

After seeing everyones points, I would like STC to install HIGH kerbs in the cutting places for next years league.