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Discussion in 'Bob's Track Builder' started by Kennett Ylitalo, Oct 17, 2011.

  1. Kennett Ylitalo

    Kennett Ylitalo Licensed

    Messages:
    4,615
    Everything related to trackbuilding and BTB in general, don't have to be a question. Post tips, discuss..

    EDIT: Since i got top post, i'll use it.. Threads that are not stickied but almost should be, now that we got the forum update fnished (AFAIK) and link addresses won't change it's time to re-arrange all the info we got here. Send a PM and i'll add more threads.

    Community XPacks: http://cream.galleria.fi/BTB/XPacks/

    Important threads:
    Race07 material names: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/race07-materials.46345/
    rFactor2 track technology: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/rfactor-2-track-technology-notes-released.45530/
    Objecys to BTB Terrain- zaxxon method: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/objects-to-btb-terrain-zaxxon-method.23609/
    Open source and uncomplemented projects: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/open-source-uncompleted-projects.23564/
     
  2. jtbo

    jtbo

    Messages:
    66
    This is really good thing, imo.

    One thing I have just understood is how to make ground/ditch and such behave like if it would be ground.

    Typically when you crash your loved virtual vehicle and make it go on it's side, it slides on it's side until vehicle stops, or when you hit ground or ditch your vehicle just launches up from it like hitting metal plate or similar.

    However from my own experience hitting ditch is quite different, when bodywork enter to mother earth, it will not simply change travel direction of bodywork, it does crumple the bodywork, grabs it, holds it so that rear part of vehicle jumps over front part and then there is rolling, which is like being inside of washing machine.

    Now to get that similar effect what we see on rally crash videos, there is parameter to change. This is from Fullthrottle Dragway, it just happened to be open, but similar lines are with most tracks:
    Bolded value has only effect when vehicle's body hits the gravel, for example a ditch, I have put values like 8 and 4 to it, seem to work ok.

    If car is modified so that UndertrayParameters line is removed from HDV effect is best, oddly that changes way how even top of car collision works, for example C6 Vette has no such line, that is why it crashes so well.

    Then for ditch I up Resistance to something like 50 000 and grip to very low 0.3, just to create effect of car digging into sand, so there is no way out from there as there are no in reality, well except with offroad 4x4, but as that is so limited chance to have such on our tracks, I think it is better to have most vehicles to have proper consequences of hitting the ditch.

    For grass CollFrict works the same, many have seen how in Nascar their vehicles sometimes roll quite badly on grass as bodywork bites into ground and flips the vehicle quickly around and around, setting that parameter will make that happen.

    There is of course a downside at least when undertrayparameters section is removed from vehicle, touching grass with bottom of car will have possibility of sudden stop, but it has happened only few times for me and most of times it has been situation where it has been possible to happen anyway, so some testing is required to make sure it is not causing some cars stick into grass, but at least I prefer this cruel setting that makes driver to be bit more scared, bit more careful, it all adds to immersion.

    Oh and has anyone got issue where those yellow popup boxes, that appear for example at surface material screen of BTB, causing mouse clicks not being registered? I now have to avoid getting those boxes as there is no way to drag surface control points. Avoiding is possible by switching to some other window and then grab control point without activating BTB, so then popup box does not appear. Tooltips I think they are called. Annoyance for sure, I think it has something to do with Nvidia desktop manager as after I did activate that I started noticing this.
     
  3. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Licensed

    Messages:
    166
    I once tried stuff with that CollFrict line, by pumping it up and crashing into it. But I remember it provided undesirable side effects which I can't remember what :D It might also issue in the car mod I was trying to crash (HistorX) or then I just used too big values. But yes I agree that CollFrict value should be quite high, because like you said cars don't slide in soil, they crash into it. My next version of Pyhäranta is featuring higher col values, but it is still in test phase also with ditches and stuff.
     
  4. Kennett Ylitalo

    Kennett Ylitalo Licensed

    Messages:
    4,615
    Thanks, Ryan!

    I'm making a Destruction Derby pack, very simple and small for RD Fun Events. An Arena, of course with open pit in the center and closed one, plus one short track with double roundabout... It's very refreshing to design a track where i don't have to follow the normal rules: people can drive the wrong way, i can use tricks that normally aren't allowed. For ex in the open pit version, when a player falls in to the pit they have to join the track by driving 1.2m below the actual sufrace.. That way their roofs are sticking out and creates moving speedbumbs etc.. I'll pack it soon and put it up for testing, sadly my server priviledges aren't restored yet (forgot to send email...) so Online testing has to be done with someones private PC.
     
  5. Lee Knight

    Lee Knight Licensed

    Messages:
    923
    I started building a short track a while back, a 'Magic Round-A-Bout' (thanks mainly to the big E, ehrlec), that I should finish off, AND that would be an excellent destruction derby.
    It takes 2laps of a round-a-bout to do one FULL lap due to an odd number of round-a-bouts lying around the main one.
    I have pictures & vid's posted on the Facebook's BTB forum/thread if anyone wishes to view.....
    It was originally done as an experiment in AIW routing.....
    I'll try to get onto it in the next few dayz so as to try & post something worthy to sample in a 'Destruction Derby' pack....
    It's currently just under 3Mb after zipping & would be excellent as a bonus in a mod when finished.....
    Also,if I provide a big 'E' to go in the middle of the main round-a-bout (in 3D form, built in SkechUp6), could someone Xpack it for me please?
    (Ive had absolutely no luck Xpacking so far....)
    The 'E' would be a center piece &, if deemed worthy, a tribute to the helpful bloke himself,
    Thanks & cheers anyone,
    BLeeK
     
  6. Kennett Ylitalo

    Kennett Ylitalo Licensed

    Messages:
    4,615
    Mine is ready: http://cream.galleria.fi/RD/Tracks/Arena_v1.0_by_CreamK.zip

    Three layouts, Arena with open center and comeback under other cars, ArenaClosed with closed center (meh) and a short course with those double roundabouts (you have at least complete the first one to get a valid lap...)
     
  7. Kennett Ylitalo

    Kennett Ylitalo Licensed

    Messages:
    4,615
    Powerposting...

    Destruction derby Arena:


    Just a small glimpse of driving in two layers (about 0:55 in the video), i've already tried with a longer track and it works. Just make a copy of the track, move it about 1m below the tarmac and limit returning to track to that second layer. It's fun when you see the roof of another car on front of you :) If you drive over it, you're up for a loooong bumby section that you cannot see or you just might make it.
     
  8. jtbo

    jtbo

    Messages:
    66
    Birmingham wheels in UK, that is 330 meters long oval that is used quite lot for banger racing and some drifters go there too, it would make quite nice track for destruction derby as at middle there is pawed area so one can use it as figure 8 track.

    I have one made in 3ds max and one made in BTB, both are bad, in BTB version I did not manage to make terrain too well and I think size is not right, might pick up that at some day and try to improve it a bit, such track is really easy to make and as it is so tiny it won't be very bad on fps either. When I get bit time from other projects might do some fixing and put it up for others to use.

    edit: I took last 7,7km of that 11_nmea I posted at other thread and made copy of it, rotated it and attached to original, so I have 15,4km track to drive around, then I added grass, trees etc and of course my trademark ditches to side of road, made nice high speed test ground, however I may have gone bit over the board with trees and shadows of them, all trees cast textured shadows, it does add a lot to feel of driving at forest, especially with low sun, but might be better to add first trees that are close to track and enable shadows and receive lights to those, then add 'passive trees to rest of ground.
    It is only some over 10 000 trees and 20 000 grass etc, but receive lights and shadows are causing bit of slowdown already.
    Grass objects have lod of under 200 and even trees only 450, with 550-600 trees would be ok too. With better placement etc it would be easy to increase performance and appearance, but even now it is quite bit like driving along forest roads. Also road is rather bumpy, might not show, but it does feel. I should fix texture of my car's window too, it is not too good.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Pangaea

    Pangaea

    Messages:
    246
    oh you guys made the general thread already.. good one :)
     
  10. Kennett Ylitalo

    Kennett Ylitalo Licensed

    Messages:
    4,615
    Yeah, had to be done, the BTB Chat room thread was misused.

    jtbo: I had better performance by making dedicated shadow caster objects and not using the trees themselves. That way i could use simpler shadow casters and that solved a lot of problems. I could also use "Solid" instead of "Texture" which also seem to improve performance. For those places that have treewalls i used SObjects made from shadow casters. The downside is that it is a lot of work to align the shadows to individual trees but it's worth it IMO. Next time i need them, i'll do more variance, one model won't fit all types of trees.

    I used 8 faces in a single plane that resembles tree silhouette. There's no individual branches like what you might get with individual trees casting in "Texture" mode but using Medium quality shadows with "Solid" introduces a slight sawpattern around the edges: "it's not a bug, it's a feature." But as it is a single plain it's sort "2D", changing sun angle may cause you to rotate every shadow caster. With good organizing of object groups and a little luck you can ctrl+a and rotate them all at once.

    I think that the gain in performance trumps over HQ shadows and a increase in overall filesize.

    EDIT: I attached two XPacks, i don't remember which one i used but it shows the idea. View attachment ShadowBAK.zip
     
  11. vo2a

    vo2a

    Messages:
    3
    Tree wall

    Hi everyone,

    I was wondering how to add tree walls in Bob's Track Builder, it's a real issue for me, because adding so many trees to make the track look real and to hide the empty on the side costs time, framerate and creates graphical glitches.

    Thank you very much !
     
  12. martinez

    martinez

    Messages:
    739
    You just build a wall and replace it's default material with material/texture of trees. Use Section Shape Tool to make it flat and higher - delete some points to make it flat). You can find many of these textures in number of xpacks. You may have to adjust settings (maybe Material Change and rotation).
     
  13. vo2a

    vo2a

    Messages:
    3
    Thank you so much, soooo much ! I can finally finish my tracks, thanks !
     
  14. Kennett Ylitalo

    Kennett Ylitalo Licensed

    Messages:
    4,615
    How long until we get Buddh GP? I did a preliminary version with GE a while ago, not at all accurate and flat, just to get some feel to it. Now that i see the elevation changes it looks very promising indeed. GE had only data where the track was still in dirt, some corners have been changed after that..
     
  15. jtbo

    jtbo

    Messages:
    66
    I have been studying quite a bit of many aspects of track making now and there is one question which remains unsolved so far, might be that information has been just slipping past my eyes, but still haven't found answer for this: Let's say you have 128 cones neatly in line and you would like to create 128 cones right next to these first 128 cones, all scaled and rotated as previous ones, how do you copy a selected object(s) ? Would save quite bit of time from rotating and scaling 128 times all over again if I could simply copy those objects. _____ edit: After reading BTB help Nth time tip did found my eye, pressing C while and then moving does make a copy of object, Shift+C copies all selected objects, made life much easier and my post nuclear war dragstrip was a lot easier to made, there were quite many pylons supporting the roof elements to be placed.
     
  16. Kennett Ylitalo

    Kennett Ylitalo Licensed

    Messages:
    4,615
    Really? Man, i feel like sooo stupid again..
     
  17. jtbo

    jtbo

    Messages:
    66
    I did try quite many key combos before too, but reading it being C that needs to be kept down while you click and drag object was indeed how to make it happen, using shift if several objects. To make them move along with the Y axis I have to do it in several steps, first copy, then move along the axis as my keyboard is not friendly with me pressing shift+C+Y... I think this Linux + FF is problematic for this board as this advanced mode looks exactly like quick reply just smileys on right and I think line changes are stolen again even I'm in advanced mode...
     
  18. Kennett Ylitalo

    Kennett Ylitalo Licensed

    Messages:
    4,615
    Aaarrgghhh... Is there a way to remap keyboard quickly and to switch between default and remapped keys quickly? I mean, i'm a proficient keyboard player (the instrument) and i can reach up to the magical 15 keys easily during performance (that's over 202mm of reach, not to brag, nothing unusual just to give you the scale.). I have a slim keyboard (the computer accessory) with semiflat profile, tad smaller key spacing and still i struggle to hold shift+Y for longer periods of time.

    So i want to map it to somewhere a lot closer. And while i'm on it i might map the other shortcuts too but Y is the worst, it's in the middle of keyboard, second row from the top, only shift+6 would be harder but then again 6 is in the top row, it's easier to find with out looking.. I would map it to W as wasd is pretty much imprinted on my hand ;) I know that Y is used so that it is easy to remember it's Y-Axis but since there's no custom shortcuts available, key remapping would solve that.
     
  19. Lee Knight

    Lee Knight Licensed

    Messages:
    923
    Remember that 'w' is for wire frames in 3D window so that'll need remapping too, perhaps swapped with 'Y' as it doesn't get used as much...
    Good idea about being able to custom re-map keyboard though!
     
  20. jtbo

    jtbo

    Messages:
    66
    I would approach problem differently, might not work for your case, but here are few ideas that might help or not.

    Sticky keys, windows feature I believe (alasjäävät näppäimet in Finnish), can't remember if it was possible to make shift key to stick down with that.

    Then there are programs that do keyboard combos with single keypress, maybe possible to make combo for unused letter so that it keeps shift-y down?

    I use my little finger (smallest one) and index finger to hold left shift + y down, helps if you rotate your hand so that you are pushing keys straight above instead of typical wrist resting on table position.

    I have rather good tolerance of pain, it does help with this, but is annoyance as also for example when shaking hands I have not so much feel that I could avoid using excessive force :)