PC2 Game changing info

Edit: There has been some tweaks/changes in the past few patches so please use the temps listed in the link below for each class as recommended by Casey.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?57541-Project-CARS-2-Tyre-Temps

So the game has been out now for a few weeks and I have had the joys of listening to the raving reviews and the hatred towards it, peoples opinions and complete opposite spectrums in regards to the game of what they were feeling....shitty, physics, bad ffb, track grips vary too much and same with the cars etc. etc.

I'll be honest, I've had moments of brilliance, followed by many WTF is wrong with the ffb and physics. I can't feel crap, mushy or any detail and usually quit to go screw with my ffb settings.

Today I was browsing through there forum looking for the magical cure to bring out the potential I've felt a few times when I came across a thread named "Tire Temps" that had 1 response with a link.
That link containedwhat I felt was the magical cure and transformed my meh rating to holy **** this game is way more sophisticated than I ever gave it credit, and completely changed the entire ffb and physics and threw the many WTF moments right out the window.

Here's the link, the important part is a few responses down by F1racer64 who linked Pirellis, Michelin and Hankook racing tire info containing what tires to run during certain temps, optimal temps as well as suggested chamber. I can't remember if the in-game tire brands are officially sponsored or based off them? but they were damn spot on!!

I choose the Audi R8 at Long Beach a track I've had issues with grip and feel, followed the info and headed out on the track. It started out the typical slippery no feel I'd come accustomed too, then with each lap I started getting more and more feedback and response from the ffb and the car, when I finally hit the optimal temp for that tire I was left grinning from ear to ear for nearly 2 hrs just lapping.

Here's the Link for those who want to read it
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/car-behavior-and-tire-temps-after-patch-2-0.361962/

For the lazy :) ill post the tire brand info here and give you a quick run down which was a quick copy & paste from F1racer

EDIT: Youll have to dl the tire info from the link as its too large for this form?
My tips:
I always thought green was the optimal temp colour for your tires and brakes....its actually a yellowy green you want.
Soft compounds are for cooler temp races
Hard compounds for hotter

The goal should be to achieve 32 PSI in every track condition. This means your cool (ambient) temp pressures set in tuning setup need to be HIGHER than your warm (ambient) temp pressures. Remember that the pressure being set in the tuning setup is your COLD pressure, whereas the target is 32 PSI (2.2 BAR) at HOT pressure state. Cooler ambient temps means less heat generated, so the starting pressure needs to be higher to begin with (closer to 32PSI).

Using the above guidelines, I have achieved consistent 150F - 175F temps in all conditions. Note that Pirelli states that "Racing tires work best at high temperatures (122° - 176° Fahrenheit)". In my testing, this has been exactly correct and has been where I have found the most grip.

For me, it completely changed how I looked at the game, the tire model and having to manage them while planning your strategy for the changing track conditions and weather has added so many aspects to my sim racing that I have not been able to experience to date in any title other than RF2.
Personally, I feel the live track 3.0 is even more advanced with the pooling water, snow, mud, ice and debris brought on track features.

I have a few questions for @Ian Bell if the info above is correct, why the hell didn't you use this info to highlight the tire model in your pre launch promos or pinned in your forums? :)

As a suggestion would it not be beneficial to raise the stock tunes PSI a few clicks so that the tires reach there optimal operating temps slightly quicker so it can highlight how good the game feels rather than struggling for several laps with lackluster ffb and response from the car.
The avg racer is never gonna figure it out and instantly give up or bash the game for poor physics and ffb. Once that tire starts reaching its optimal temps its feels amazing :thumbsup::thumbsup::D

Cheers
David
 
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Glad to hear you enjoy it Andy, I thought I read some time back you would not buy it ? Enough good reasons to change your mind though, well done and it does look amazing ! :sneaky:
You read wrong.:rolleyes: And I didn't change my mind. I stated I would buy it after some good reviews here and when I could get it cheaper. That's what I did.
 
Ok guys , I have to admit.
This is next level.
On 1st game, people needed to try a gazillion ffb settings.
Now on 2nd game, you only need to put the "correct" tyre pressure and voila, simulation value has increased...
How haven't I thought about this?
 
For me though, as good as this race sim is, it badly badly needs the AI looking at. They are terrible and probably the worst I have ever encountered in a PC race sim.
Secondly, I love replays and the external replay sound is again one of the worst I have ever witnessed. Please fix it SMS.
 
Maybe I'm completely missing the point here but how is this a game changer? What is it doing here regarding tyre pressure that's more advanced than the AC tyre model?

AC does model tyre temp, in fact it's essential to get this right to optimise the car performance, IMO it is the single biggest discriminator in lap time.

But it does not model tyre differentials with changes in weather, water, mud and debris on the track. With AC, your environment is set and forget, with the exception of grip levels increasing over a race. This change is linear and in line with the length of race and # of cars. With PC2 the whole model is completely dynamic, and changes with all those extra environment variables as you go, in real time.
 
The main reason I started this thread was to inform people of the optimal operating temps for the tires, along with how well they were modeled. As many people including my self have been judging and giving reviews based on a cold tire which has lackluster ffb and sloppy handling (realistic) than claiming the ffb and physic arent good.

Gamermuscles "jack spade to the rescue" review is an excellent example of this.
He drove straight out of the pits at full throttle on cold tires, sliding and fighting the wheel the entire time than changed the ffb settings 5 times before he had even completed 3 laps while commenting about the lack of feel in the front under turn in and breaking........meanwhile his fronts were still cold and the rears were worn

Once the tires hit those optimal temps the ffb and physics are night and day compared to the cold tire.

Then you combined the live track 3.0 and weather while trying to avoid puddles and debris while maintaining optimal temps is a depth not found in other titles.
 
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And there I was thinking that things like weight transfer, road bumps, tire load etc. should also be felt through a cold tire. How silly of me. /s

I'd be amazed if @GamerMuscle doesn't know about the concept of optimal tire temps/pressures.

Where did I say you don't feel those ? I just find the forces much weaker and sloppier with a cold tire and the wheel really comes alive with better response at optimal temps.
I am not saying he doesn't know the concept of tire temps either. I was just pointing out what I saw in his video which I also commented on agreeing with everything he said in the video until I found out about the optimal temps which might help with the 2 factors he didn't like with just a few clicks of the stock psi as some of the cars have very low psi settings which I also mentioned to Ian Bell about adjusting in my opening post.
That was one of them that he was driving in his video and being light weight it would take ages to warm them up.
I also posted the tire details on the video for him to try.
Again FFB is subjective and everyone has there preferences, maybe it will change his opinion maybe not ?
 
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Where did I say you don't feel those ?
Here:
As many people including my self have been judging and giving reviews based on a cold tire which has lackluster ffb and sloppy handling (realistic) than claiming the ffb and physic arent good. [...]

[...] while commenting about the lack of feel in the front under turn in and breaking........meanwhile his fronts were still cold and the rears were worn

Once the tires hit those optimal temps the ffb and physics are night and day compared to the cold tire.[...]
I bolded the most relevant quote. While I agree that is absolutely realistic to feel less grip through the FFB wheel and the car being twitchy and slidey on a cold tire, the weight transfer, bumps and everything else should still be there. So by no means should the FFB be night and day between cold and warm tires, but rather the grip feel only. Everything else should translate just as well on a cold tires. Optimal tire pressures/temps should influnece car handling and lap times, but not the FFB feel in general. At least they don't in the sim racing trifecta.
 
I bolded the most relevant quote. While I agree that is absolutely realistic to feel less grip through the FFB wheel and the car being twitchy and slidey on a cold tire, the weight transfer, bumps and everything else should still be there. So by no means should the FFB be night and day between cold and warm tires, but rather the grip feel only. Everything else should translate just as well on a cold tires. Optimal tire pressures/temps should influnece car handling and lap times, but not the FFB feel in general. At least they don't in the sim racing trifecta.

You probably do not have much ice driving experience, or snow driving? In real life at least, there is _literally_ a night and day difference between tire grip and not having tire grip.. in the way weight transfer and other details emerge from the steering wheel, and from the seat-of-the-pants feel.

Granted, in sim-world we would probably want these exaggerated (ala Assetto Corsa) but at least in real life, these are the exact things that are less detailed when tire temps are cold or when tires are worn/old.

I find it really strange that you haven't experienced this in real life. It's one of _the_ things you notice when going from old worn tires to fresh new rubber in the spring.
 
Here:

I bolded the most relevant quote. While I agree that is absolutely realistic to feel less grip through the FFB wheel and the car being twitchy and slidey on a cold tire, the weight transfer, bumps and everything else should still be there. So by no means should the FFB be night and day between cold and warm tires, but rather the grip feel only. Everything else should translate just as well on a cold tires. Optimal tire pressures/temps should influnece car handling and lap times, but not the FFB feel in general. At least they don't in the sim racing trifecta.

I get what your saying but i am slightly confused aswell lol
Might be the fact its 6am and ive yet to sleep :)
I am no physics expert by any means but ill do my best to describe this.

I feel all those forces on the cold tire but there softer due to the low psi 21-22 and the grip is slippery and twitchy and less responsive.
As the tire heats up the psi rises causing the tire to be denser and harder with less flex resulting in sharper stronger forces through the ffb at 32 psi
The tire grip feels tighter through the wheel.

Thats how it feels on my toy thrustmaster tx

In real life if I want a comfy ride I lower the psi in my tires to absorb the bumps and gain more grip for offroading or winter months but makes the handling sloppy....if I raise the psi the ride becomes more responsive, firmer and harsher when hitting bumps which are much more noticeable through the suspension and steering wheel.
And thats what i meant by night and day.

No shock expert either but i am assuming a cold shock would have a bit more travel due to the less dense gas inside and as it heats they expand causing a higher pressure and a firmer ride but if they get too hot the opposite happens and you get shock fade.
 
The gist of my sarcastic remark was that the FFB should not feel bad even on a cold tire. Different, yes of course, but not bad per se and certainly not in a way that using the correct tire pressures should be a "game changer" in regards to FFB feel. You alluded to the possibility that reviewers maybe only drove the cars on too cold/ too soft tires and concluding from that, that the Physics/FFB are bad or at least worse that in other sims. I never heard any line of reasoning regarding any other sim or driving game.

Do you really think its a job well done if the overall quality of the FFB would be dependent on the tire temp/pressure in such a way that it warrants bad reviews if the tires are too cold?
 
regarding tire pressures in pcars 2 from the Vehicle Technical Lead dev from sms :)

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Casey Ringley
Sure thing. Here are some rough targets for the main tire groups.

Formula Cars (IndyCar, FX, FA, FR3.5): 1.7bar front / 1.45bar rear (24psi / 21psi) at road circuits. The Dallara IR-12 oval tires like up to 45psi on the right side.
Modern GT & LMP: ~1.8bar front and rear. Maybe down to 1.6bar for a very slow track like Long Beach or higher to 1.90-1.95bar at Le Mans to squeeze a little bit more off the rolling resistance.
Touring cars & V8 Supercar: 2.0-2.15bar front and rear
Ford Fusion: 2.4-2.6bar front and rear for road courses. Ovals might go to 3.0bar+ (45-50psi) on the right side
Light sportscars (Radical, BAC, KTM, etc): ~1.6bar (24psi)
Road car tires: All in the 2.1-2.2bar (29-32psi) range hot. Any MotorTrend readers will know how much they stop every few laps and bleed pressure to hold that target during the BDC tests.
Vintage GT: Roughly the same range as modern GT
Vintage Group 6 & Formula: Bit more flexible here. Something in the 1.7bar (25psi) range is usually a good starting point up to 2.0bar (29psi) or down to 1.2bar (17psi) to adjust for balance on something wild like the Lotus 72D
 
regarding tire pressures in pcars 2 from the Vehicle Technical Lead dev from sms :)

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Casey Ringley
Sure thing. Here are some rough targets for the main tire groups.

Formula Cars (IndyCar, FX, FA, FR3.5): 1.7bar front / 1.45bar rear (24psi / 21psi) at road circuits. The Dallara IR-12 oval tires like up to 45psi on the right side.
Modern GT & LMP: ~1.8bar front and rear. Maybe down to 1.6bar for a very slow track like Long Beach or higher to 1.90-1.95bar at Le Mans to squeeze a little bit more off the rolling resistance.
Touring cars & V8 Supercar: 2.0-2.15bar front and rear
Ford Fusion: 2.4-2.6bar front and rear for road courses. Ovals might go to 3.0bar+ (45-50psi) on the right side
Light sportscars (Radical, BAC, KTM, etc): ~1.6bar (24psi)
Road car tires: All in the 2.1-2.2bar (29-32psi) range hot. Any MotorTrend readers will know how much they stop every few laps and bleed pressure to hold that target during the BDC tests.
Vintage GT: Roughly the same range as modern GT
Vintage Group 6 & Formula: Bit more flexible here. Something in the 1.7bar (25psi) range is usually a good starting point up to 2.0bar (29psi) or down to 1.2bar (17psi) to adjust for balance on something wild like the Lotus 72D
Very useful. Thanks:thumbsup:
 
I can't wait for SMS to really fix the AI and the external replay sounds. The game will be perfect for me then.
I am still astounded by the weather graphics and the lighting every time I play it.
I did some early AM racing yesterday at Hockenheim starting at 04:00 with 2 times speed of weather change and it was such a joy to see the dawn breaking as the race went on. Love it.:thumbsup:
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