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Discussion in 'R3E Racing Club & Leagues' started by Ross Garland, Nov 14, 2017.
Great job with the stream Joseph, I've been watching a lot of you're past streams the last few days, very professional commentary!
Great couple of races, had a lot of fun in both with some great battles. I love to hate this track
I had a setup prepared, but in the end, I went with @Calvyn White's one as it was slightly more well behaved over the countless crests here, so thanks a lot for that!
My stream as always should be on my channel for anyone interested.
Oh, and @Jopamir, next time, if I'm behind you and you make a mistake, I'll be the one making *you* laugh and mess it all up even more
BTW, that's how close I came to be collected after our encounter with a backmarker...
Really sorry Calvyn and Christoph, this was shaping up to become an epic battle, though it already was
Yeah I just looked at the replay and I feel my must apologise to Christoph, but because of the back marker you slow down or just couldn't accelerate as usual out of the corner which I wasn't expecting and tried trying to avoid which I did, but it cause me to spin and hit you anyway. Sorry about that. My fault to a point. But feel free to report me if you haven't already and you feel its necessary or warranted, no hard feelings.
I don't think I could have done anything else... He took the turn really wide and I thought he was letting me through, but then he slammed back toward the apex and I clipped him...
Yes I see that I'm afraid I'm going to have to put the blame on the back marker on this one. Which resulting in a incident 2 or 3 cars back from the first. I feel he certainly wasn't paying attention to any blue flags or his mirrors as well as I suspect not using crew chief which I feel he obviously needs to use.
First 10 seconds of his second race is not in a standard I would accept as acceptable. But that's just my opinion. But he is new to race department and is probably new to sim racing, so nerves and being a rookie play the part in what happens. We were all new once and we have all made similar mistakes.
Then again, from what I saw in the stream, I think he was doing his best to keep to his line IMO, the rest was just inexperience and nerves as you mentioned. Which is what's generally advised under blue flag I believe - despite Joseph talking about him failing to move away from the racing line due to the blue flag on the stream.
But this is the really confusing thing about blue flags - there are two completely different lines of thinking on what one should do under blue flags, it seems. Some people will tell you you should stay on your line, don't do anything unpredictable (which is certainly quite hard, especially if you have little experience with online racing) and let the faster car do the work (and only assist him with slight lift off once he commits), but other people will tell you you are expected to move away from the racing line to let the faster car pass.
Make up your mind, people, damn it
Plus, even if you just drive your line and let the other car pass you, the faster drivers can sometimes overtake you in places and situations that are far from ideal from your point of view. The faster driver probably has a lot more experience and skill to make it work, but someone inexperienced and/or nervous can be really thrown off by that and do something he didn't even want to do. I know, because I've been there way too many times myself.
I'd say getting a blue flag is the second most stressful time in the race right after the first lap, if not *the* most stressful.
in most cases i wait for some long ass straight, lil lift off and thats it
I'm afraid Joseph is wrong in suggesting he should have gotten off of the racing line, as RaceDepartment's own rules state exactly the opposte:
6. Do not alter your line or braking for a faster car behind you. Unpredictable moves have a way of ending the race for both of you. Let the faster car dictate when and where to initiate a pass, and only then assist by easing off of the throttle.
There may be two ways of thinking about blue flags, but the above is RD's thinking so it's what people should be doing.
This is indeed part of the problem... impatience. The faster guys need to respect rule 6 just like the guys being lapped, so should not be shouting at people to move out of the way on TS. They should be choosing a safe and predictable place to initiate an overtake, just like they should when racing for position. No dive bombs, no shoving, no expecting the other guy to swerve out of your way as you come barrelling through.
Well I look at it like this the blue flag is an indicator that a faster car approaching it is there to indicate that you are faster than the car in front in at least two sectors in succession. It is an indicator to prepare yourself to be overtaken in what manner this is done does not matter to me as long as it is obvious and indicating he knows you're there and he is doing his best to let you bye. When and how this is done on certain parts of a track is tricky so the situation dictates how it's done. So the driver behind must be patient and observant for when the opportunity is given and the manner of the opportunity. Good experience from both parties makes this easier.
All I can say is don't panic try not to be nervous do your best and think where you can give the opportunity, in the road head of you. Experienced drivers should be patient, thoughtful, considerate of the rookie and or back marker, but expect the worst.
Sorry Ross but sometimes the rules have to bend a little to accommodate a situation that needs flexibility in the circumstances. But that back marker, rookie should be treated as if you were chasing down the first place in other words no less respect in all eventualities. So whenever whether you're overtaking them or not they are still racing.
All I can say to the Rookie and or back marker is do your absolute best, as most of us have been there and understand, so learn from your mistakes and practice in think constantly in the area of doing the right thing at the right time, no pressure.
Take for instance trying to keep within the white lines on this circuit in trying to do so just ruined your whole lap. It is the nature of the circuit that it allows you to go beyond this point of the white line. As much as I tried it was hopeless, at least once or twice in a lap I would go beyond this point. But if that is a ban you will have to ban everybody that was in that race including yourself. We all made the effort but it was just too awkward to do so on a consistent level of the rule requirement. At the end of the day it was this track other tracks it's a lot easier to keep within the rule. But I certainly have no complaints about anybody else going beyond the white line not that I was doing it myself, it's because it was the track itself. It's just the way the track flows. But I'm sure we all did our best.
I totally agree with the rule. I used to do cyclocross races and the rules were similar: it's up to the faster guys to pass you safely, all you have to do as a backmarker is to remain predictable.
I've posted my replay just for argument's sake, as an example of what I think one should not do. I don't think I'm to blame here for this as 1) I stayed behind through the first two chicanes and didn't try anything crazy to pass, and 2) that the backmarker in question was not very predictable. In fact, he cut twice across the track, moving out of the racing line, which I saw as an indication that he was yielding, but as you can see, he slammed back.
I'm not necessarily laying the blame on the backmarker either: it appears to be the result of a combination of inexperience and a stupidly difficult track, and, like Calvyn said, we've all been there. It's just unfortunate and I can see how frustrating it is for those whose race was ruined.
Thank you Joseph for the brilliant job Please keep 'em coming, and if possible, free of charge, ehehehehe
Just a thought:
I really wouldn't mind to pay an extra, additional, optional fee to RD to access replays of our live broadcasted (...and awesomely commentated) races.
IMO it is fair and just because you Joseph, really introduce another dimension to the broadcast and that should be recognized and compensated. But, as I implied, it should be, IMO included (as an option) in our RD subscription and not have to pay an external service provider to access a content (firstly) generated by RD's structure/racers/staff...
Well, sorry for that, its just my opinion and had to go out of my chest (sad as I was when I could not watch the previous broadcast of our race at @zolder),
Patrick summed it up perfectly. There's no need to bend the rule because it's as simple as he says... it's up to the faster guy to make the pass safely. As rule 6 states, the lapped driver only needs to "help" once the pass has been initiated by lifting slightly. That's it.
Something which has been touched on here but is actually the crux of the matter is that we're talking about experienced faster guys versus inexperienced slower guys in this situation most of the time. The inexperienced guys have enough on their plate already without worrying about having to make way for aliens to come charging through the moment they arrive behind them. The experienced guys need to be patient and tolerant, and they need to make use of their superior knowledge and skills to get things done safely. It's not up to the rookies to make way because they have just as much right to be on track as anyone else.
I'd also like to point out (again) that this is club racing. No points, no prizes, no need to be so competitive. Just stick to the rules and try and have fun.
And, as I said in the stream, it was a shame for those guys up front but as long as the back marker has learnt from the experience. It's all about learning and having fun. We aren't here to be the best of the best, we are here to get better and enjoy ourselves.