F1 2013 FPS Bug Confirmed - Higher FPS = Faster Laptimes

[Mark Saunders]

Hi guys,

Edit: I'm only going to post my own findings not others as it's not fair if they don't want to be drawn into it...

Right so I've heard this circulating for a little while, sorry for the grandiose title but I think it's important for leagues on here to know what is going on. I spent my time on Saturday after release completing scenarios from which I had the top 10 scores for 15/20 of them. Fantastic I thought, I'm sorted for on-line already. Then Saturday evening during a pre-season league race I noticed I would use full KERS and DRS in Nurburgring (not the highest speed of tracks) and watch people *still* pull away from me. Sunday, 5 lap races and noticed I averaged about 1.5 seconds a lap slower than a couple of people, 2.7 seconds around one track...I managed only 2 victories after around 20 races compared to my 48% victory rating in 2012. Tonight I managed 6 out of 6 victories...

Many wont know me... I'm a twitchy paranoid driver who ultimately isn't as fast as some but I'm ridiculously consistent hence the concern I had; I thought people were hiding set-ups but they just reported they were using 2012 set-ups (sorry to those whom I doubted for a brief time).

I tried numerous hosts with the same people, tried lowering settings, extreme set-ups, all to no avail. Then I stopped recording and noticed a small reduction in the gap but reported it to people as inconclusive after complaining to them all night, noting that a couple of tenths wasn't enough to draw conclusions... Today I get home from work and Shaki and Starplayer both informed me about the FPS bug.

The basic premise is, the higher your FPS, the faster you go. This is the opposite of the rumours circulating around 2012. Of course in 2012 it wasn't feasible that you could run at 20 fps to test the theory and still be accurate but now it's reversed you can all test it. Go into on-line, make the conditions stable (sunny) and use the same set-up with both minimum and maximum graphics settings. This will not work offline; logic dictates that if all cars are controlled by your computer (offline) you'll all get the same reduction, probably culminating in lap times which do not sync to real life but do sync to realistic lap times against AI... it has to be on-line as sync issues, latency and differing computer set-ups all occur there, increasing the likelihood of issues. Hence, scenario and other such modes will not be affected by this... 99% certain.

So my final test, two 5 lap races around Spa, the first of which was recorded at 140FPS, the second at 50FPS. If anyone tried to overtake, I backed off so I could get clean air. My fastest lap with 140FPS was recorded with medium fuel, 50FPS on high fuel.

140FPS Medium Fuel:

50FPS High Fuel:

Oh and for good measure, the results when not everyone knows about this issue... I felt horrible after this race but please remember, I was a long long way off the pace prior to trying this. Sorry there aren't more but I don't want to win races like this

I'd like to propose that F1 2013 PC Leagues don't start until this is sorted although I'm pretty certain you're all already aware of this. I realise this may make others do the same but I don't want people to feel the utter frustration that I did whilst racing not knowing what was going on...

Also please note that whilst at 140FPS, my steering wheel would basically attempt to steer me around corners. The G27 isn't the strongest of wheels but when it attempts to full lock in one direction, seemingly with no notice, it is extremely bizarre to drive. Going from 7th gear down to 2nd around a right hander with say an average braking point of 120metres, at about 90metres, the wheel would pull at 100% force to the right during the braking zone which you would have to correct, hence the fact that I think I could have gone faster with 140FPS if I had of turned the FFB to a lower setting or gotten used to the weird effect. At some points it turns off altogether (Monaco anywhere below 3rd gear) at some places it tries to veer you off the track (Brazil, last proper corner). Not sure if this has any impact on where this coding fault lies but worthy of looking at anyway.

I hypothesise that this is based on someone trying to improve performance for console versions where a change needed to be made for the PC port. On consoles, everyone has roughly the same FPS so no problem... might I suggest that if anyone happens to read this from CM, look at your timing counter and look for where someone has rounded up or down a number to improve performance. Maybe an implementation of a customised .ceil() or .floor() which would affect rounding numbers dependant on the number of FPS per second... any float truncation? It's going to be in your on-line code base...

Codemasters, you've made a game which in certain parts is particularly epic; if this is all resolved you will have a winner here, please don't let it go to waste... timing bugs in a racing game, especially one which tries on hundredths of a second to win or loose cannot remain.

Kind Regards,
Mark.

 

[Victor Ivanov]

It works in every mode. It's as simple as that, more fps = more grip & acceleration. No matter of where you drive, on which track, what mode, online or offline, what car. It's just like that.

And you can simply notice it if you play with 1/1 wings. If someone is making a gap to you on the straight if you're slipstreaming him on rich mixture, then he most likely uses too high FPS.

You'll see, once CM fixes this bug, some of the very "fast" people will suddenly be 2 seconds down. It's going to be pretty clear who had used the bug and who hasn't. I'm all up for more fast people so it becomes more fun, but let them be realistically fast. Not just because they exploit the game. I mean, everyone can be fast with the right amount of grip. Some people may need 200% grip some may need 105% grip to be with the top players, but that's not how we want to play. We want equality.

Some people like me need 90% grip

 

[TCS_disable]

potentially more if you think a 1:13 is possible with your set-up.

Thanks Codemaster gimme a best "Default Average" set up.

My Test is simple, Drive 5 Laps in different situation and Same drive Style as I can.

But your test model for me have a lot of defect seriously. Too much non handle Different Condition in your test.

If I keep continue, I could say....

Lower FPS is much easy to Drive. But will you play this game in FPS 1?

 

[TCS_disable]

Moreover.... Looks someone didn't know this game engine inside has "Lucky Draw" factor in vehicle performance (Reason I used Time Trial mode to test)

 

[Kristian Nenov]

Moreover.... Looks someone didn't know this game engine inside has "Lucky Draw" factor in vehicle performance (Reason I used Time Trial mode to test)

That's for the AI, not your car.

 

[Mark Saunders]

I'm not entirely sure why you've taken a snide tone (In textual terms of course) when all I've done is attempt to bring this issue to light for some people. I can justify the difference though I fear this is too going to sound confrontational... I just can't explain it any other way.

Thanks Codemaster gimme a best "Default Average" set up.

You misunderstood what I said. I only mentioned the 'your set-up' because whatever it is, you mentioned that a 1:13 was possible... hence you were doing laps which were some way off of the pace of what you are capable of doing.

My Test is simple, Drive 5 Laps in different situation and Same drive Style as I can.

Your 5 lap test does not work if you aren't putting together optimum laps. 0.5 deviation in single sector times is not enough when testing on one of the shortest tracks in the game, especially when coupled with a 30-60 FPS test which is only going to uncover a small defect anyway (probably in the region of less than half a second as an estimate). You also tried what has been labelled as the potentially slower set-up last instead of first so you have not accounted for potential driving improvements which you will have, along with admitting that neither of the displayed laps are the best which you can do.

But your test model for me have a lot of defect seriously. Too much non handle Different Condition in your test.

Test model is a strong description of what I did... my cowboy approach to finding a game bug would be a more fitting title, it wasn't particularly scientific . They all revolve around human testing; that is what we're limited to though so I have no alternative. All I can do is notice a chain of events which lead to the conclusion. This is why I said test it for yourselves, if you don't see it, fair enough but your test conditions are not going to uncover the issue very well; here was what I noticed:

1) A win rate of 10% over the course of 20 races (By some margin) all of a sudden rising to 100% over 6 races. 2 of those races saw me win by 20 seconds in a 5 lap race, hence why I've stopped racing on-line until this is fixed. First alarm bell.

2) Do a test on a track from which I do not generally make mistakes larger than a couple of tenths, put the same conditions on and observe the difference of 1.3 seconds even though I only used standard fuel at high FPS.

3) The wheel fights you when in high FPS as if the game is telling the feedback information which is NOT the same as usual. It doesn't give feedback, it pulls you toward the corners; it's not a nice sensation but it's a pretty big alarm bell. Their feedback model is likely to be fed the information that the physics model is calculating so any problems here are likely to come across in feedback too...

4) A deficit of 2 seconds on-line against some people, pretty much immediately eradicated when learning about this issue and then agreeing to V-Sync.

5) The large difference in car performance and grip levels noticed at higher FPS. You can pretty much slam on the accelerator at 140 FPS which is not as much fun.

6) Before with full DRS and KERS I could not overtake people on straights, now I appear to fly past them when I turn up the FPS.

If I keep continue, I could say....

Lower FPS is much easy to Drive. But will you play this game in FPS 1?

Condescension? Really? It's not as if this is a completely undocumented issue and I did say in the first post that this isn't 100% so people should try it. If I said something out of line or stupid well... it still wouldn't be justified as a first comment made to someone.

If you're still in doubt, go and search Steve Hoods twitter account where he has said CM are currently looking into the issue. I commend not trusting me straight out of the box but please do read who else is saying this; some of the fastest people in this game are saying the same thing and the Creative Director from Codemasters has come out and said the company is looking into the issue...

 

[TCS_disable]

I just put a Best lap just like you,

Same Car, Same Track, Same Setup(Default), BUT Same Fuel Levels (My case should be no business about that)

Your post is talking about the higher FPS will power up the Acceleration

but your test have SERIOUS FATAL MISTAKE just a Fuel level.

140FPS Medium Fuel&50FPS High Fuel
For me... You looks like try to teach everyone a logic lesson about "High Fuel is never could beat Medium Fuel"

Unless you talking this is "Rich Mix" or "Standard Mix".

 

[Mark Saunders]

I just put a Best lap just like you,

Same Car, Same Track, Same Setup(Default), BUT Same Fuel Levels (My case should be no business about that)

Your post is talking about the higher FPS will power up the Acceleration

but your test have SERIOUS FATAL MISTAKE just a Fuel level.

140FPS Medium Fuel&50FPS High Fuel
For me... You looks like try to teach everyone a logic lesson about "High Fuel is never could beat Medium Fuel"

Unless you talking this is "Rich Mix" or "Standard Mix".

Okay, sorry for the technicality, yes I meant Rich Mix versus Standard mix. Rick mix 60 fps is still massively slower than standard mix 140 fps.

 

[Mike Partington]

I don't even know why this is up for debate. CM have already acknowledged the problem and are working on a fix. There is nothing else we can do until then.

 

[Yawama]

Agree with Mike. CM is already looking into this issue.

There is enough evidence on their forums to show that this problem exists.

 

[TCS_disable]

OK, I did a same Test again

This time in GP mode, Same Place, Same race set Up, Same car, Same tuning, Same PC same Wheel babababa

expect the FPS

Race Set Up

Car Set up

This is FPS 60 running in Rich Mix

This is FPS 30 running in Rich Mix

Hey... In FPS 30 I'm running Faster than FPS 60, what the actually means?

Moreover, This is FPS 120 running in Rich Mix (Actually FPS in average just 75, this is no meaning.)

Hey, This time much faster than FPS 60 or 30!
then Mark's theory is correct?

I don't think so...

 

[Mark Saunders]

I said I only tested on-line and in scenario's so you aren't proving for or against anything I've said. Also averaging 75 frames is NOT the same as 120. I'm really quite perplexed at the prospect of having to tell someone that 75 != 120...

 

[TCS_disable]

You still got no idea what I said.
I did another test. Very same as last picture i posted but VSync is enable on these test.

This is FPS 60 with Vsync running in Rich Mix

This is FPS 30 with Vsync running in Rich Mix

FPS 120? well... my Monitor is limited only 60Hz, the result must same as FPS 60 case.

Some say the FPS affected Grip level.

But on me... Damn it... Why don't try throw your current PC and Build a New one first?

 

[Victor Ivanov]

I have no idea what are you trying to prove here especially when tons of people have discovered this bug and it's present! You make some tests on low fps and you're not even setting fast times.

 

[Chris Brand]

I'm just going to come in at this point and laugh my ass right off at this guy.

 

[Mark Saunders]

I'm not entirely sure what he's talking about any more... 30 fps with V-Sync? Do you even understand what this test is about? With V-sync locked on (lol), still racing in GP mode, those lap times (sorry to have to be dragged into saying), inconsistency in sector times as well as continuing to do the lower fps AFTER the high fps when you're clearly some way off the pace and will improve that much... you may as well be judging a painting whilst looking through a kaleidoscope.

 

[TCS_disable]

I'm not entirely sure what he's talking about any more... 30 fps with V-Sync? Do you even understand what this test is about? With V-sync locked on (lol), still racing in GP mode, those lap times (sorry to have to be dragged into saying), inconsistency in sector times as well as continuing to do the lower fps AFTER the high fps when you're clearly some way off the pace and will improve that much... you may as well be judging a painting whilst looking through a kaleidoscope.

I know this test what you said, the FPS will affected Physics engine and make you disadvantage

 

[Qazdar Karim]

Well,

more fps = faster laptimes is the main idea !

but,i think it's more complex,i made a test on monza with ultra low + vsync off and ffb off (ofcourse) .

First lap was great : went from 1:19:xx to 1:18:xx ... then strange things were happening :

DRS with no effect on acceleration and top speeds ( closing / opening helped).
Top speeds were different each lap ,i was stuck with 302 km/h on 7th gear sometimes 339 ,350 ... completely random !
Random gear shifts and braking ...

The game was running at 230-280 fps,and not constant fps ... which makes me think that the "variations affect the car"s behaviour" is a better description !

 

[TCS_disable]

Ok... If you talking your gaming FPS is Roller Coaster Ride

Well,

more fps = faster laptimes is the main idea !

My several test result were show this doesn't a happen.

But degrade graphics could improve FPS and vehicle speed or FFB Accuracy.
In my theory, this is your PC sucks more than the game have problem.

 

[Mark Saunders]

Okay if you're blaming PCs, mine runs 140 fps with 3 fps deviance around any track. It's extremely stable and has to be because I'm a software developer; I'm currently working on a particle simulator rendering in the region of 2 million particles, attempting to at least partially resolve N-Body General Relativity Simulation outside of work. If my computer was not stable, it wouldn't be scientifically accurate... The fact that you said you tried 120 fps but it would average at 75 fps suggests that this is a moot point as your computer is not as stable anyway.

Out of interest, are you using a controller or a wheel? Being that a lot of people who find this bug also say it affects their force feedback, it's entirely possible that this is a wheel issue although not very likely...

 

[Mark Saunders]

Oh and you're still running in GP mode... with a very small deviance in fps...