Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 5' started by Stephen Spackman, Jun 26, 2010.
Which is better and why?
Race Pro as it's physics and racing surpass Forza by a country mile. Cant speak for GT5. But RP's physics and racing surpass that of GT5P and the GT5 challenge thing that was released a couple months back
I disagree, Race PRO is vastly overrated. Having played Race PRO, Forza, GT5P and the GT5 Challenge add-on for quite some time I would say Race PRO is only on a par with Forza on physics and handling and really lags behind it on graphics. In my opinion GT5P surpasses both those games on all counts. GT5 cars to me handle more realistically, fluid, with a feeling on weight. Forcefeedback also feels better to me and I think only the blind could deny GT5's graphical prowess. Of course time will tell if Polyphony got the online play right and that's one area that will be critical for me and could be very dissapointing of they mess it up. Of course they would have a long way to go to beat the broken mess that Race Pro was released in. I am quite certain that GT5 will get properly supported though unlike Race PRO.
Forza is better than GT5 because we can play Forza
Forza i a useless title, as is GT5P and the GT5 Challenge, granted challenge is better than FM3 but all 3 are dumbed down. they all feel lifeless and rely far to much on FFB to replicate what a car feels like. Race Pro is essentially a dumbed down Race 07 but id take that over the fake feeling GT5's we've seen to date and especially FM3. Now of course thats not to say GT can't save it's self in fact if it's anything less than perfect id be demanding my money back after it's 4-5 years of development.
This thread is just flamebait. But I'll chip in.
As was and is always the case, if you're looking for a SIMULATOR, go to Rfactor, or better yet iRacing.
That said, don't try to compare a existing product to something that nobody's played. Ask the question after GT5 has already come out. I've been so burned by GT5 delays I'm telling myself it's not really going to come out this year.
This is the consoles forum Erukian, we're talking about console games.
As I've said I find Race PRO's physics and handling only on a par with Forza 3. Graphically Forza beats it hands down to me and so far as gameplay Forza is waay ahead of RACE Pro. I just can't bring myself to load the game, the uninspiring dated menu system the graphical glitches that have been there since the day of release that just wipe out any immersion you might get from driving it. Outside of RaceDepartment Race PRO is dead, nobody is interested because of the way it was released and then abandoned. Given the choice between Forza 3 and Race PRO I'd choose to play Forza 3 every time but then I'd rather play GT5P than Forza 3 and will almost certainly be spending more time in GT5. Hell I'd rather play ModNation Racers than play Race PRO
FM3 physics and RP physics are worlds apart, otherwise id be sat here congratulating FM3 realism (brakes do not lock up at 150+ mph, i dont care what car your in). Matter of opinion i suppose. I just hate the 400, 800 whatever it is number of cars in games like GT & FM3, i just wanna jump in and race. And while yes GT and FM have masses of playability (prob why you prefer mod nation to RP), there is no feel to them. I agree RP graphics and menu are dated, but i dont buy games for that.
I find it just as easy to lock up the brakes in Race PRO at high speed in the high performance cars. Whats to hate about such a wide choice when RACE Pro offers far far fewer car choices and still can't get it right. Its not surprising you try to diminish the role of force-feedback when Race PRO's was so very broken and was for a long time, and even when fixed just so that it would function its pretty poor. I don't know how you can not get FFB right even when using the official Microsoft Wheel but then they couldn't even fix the glitchy graphics even though they are dealing with one hardware format. The problem with RACE Pro is that disappointment set in when navigating through the poorly made menu's and that sense of disappointment never left most players right the way through the game.
Stephen it's difficult to say as Forza 3 is available to play while GT5 isn't.
Hands-on previews and reviews by people who know and love car simulations are few and far between and even then, how many simulation fans can catagorically state a race car (or road car) has been accurately reproduced, physics & tyre grip wise, in a videogame? Most mere motals have never even sat in a high performance road car, let alone driven one...and the only way in which I learn about race car grip is to read reviews by testers in magazines such as EVO, where Roger Green drove a Le Mans Audi R10 or Chris Harris driving the GT series R8. Watching live racing either trackside or on TV doesn't tell you a whole lot about tyre grip on in-car feel.
That being said, the only simualation fan review of the E3 GT5 2 minute demo I've seen is by the guys (and lady!) over at I have no idea how respected these people are out in the sim racing community
While they were complimentary of the physics, said to be much like Forza 3, they found the NASCAR vehicles much easier to drive in Gt5 than those found within PC racing simulators. The overall impression I got from watching the review is that the GT series is spread a little too thin over many motorsport disciplines.
If you love car collecting, then GT5 will be your game of choice with over 1000 cars and 200 premium models. Graphically, GT has always had the edge over its rivals with great car models, I'd expect this to hold true in GT5.
As for Forza 3, I have a love/hate relationship with it and the people who represent Turn10 (chiefly Che who trolls the NeoGAF GT forum thread).
Forza to me is more of the same from Forza 2 just with a solid graphical upgrade (still not as nice to look at as Grid or Dirt 2 nor the quality Codemasters damage modelling) and stupidly small 8 car grids. Not fixing bugs/glitches such as non-working dashboards is in-excusable, the PI system is broken and the online "hopper" system is flawed. Forza 3 even carried over the money glitch found in Forza 1 and 2....
Further, F3 is lacking tracks not only from Forza 1 (full NYC track anyone) but also Asia and Oceanica - why put in cars from the V8 series from Australia when there isn't a single track from Australia in the game! (same goes for the DTM & NASCAR series - how many of their tracks are in the game?). Car painting seems to be the main focus within Foza 3, while driving earns you very little credits in comparison.
Suffice to say I won't be buying Forza 4 on launch day like I did for Forza 3.
Gran Turismo vs Forza vs PC
Well after playing many PC titles from GTL, GTR 2, Race 07 to Race On, iRacing, rfactor. Then playing Forza 2 and 3, Race Pro. My pick with a recent purchase of a PS3 system would have to be GT5 Prologue. The PC sims fall short on graphics. Forza 3 has slightly higher detail than GT5 Prologue, but the lighting sucks in Forza 3 even compared to GT5 Prologue.
I'm curious, how many people here who dislike Forza's physics have driven it with the Fanatec Turbo S wheel. I've played the game with a controller, the xbox360 wheel (which didnt feel half bad) but when i hooked up the Fanatec wheel it transformed the game into a full blown simulator. With the controller and xbox360 wheel the game still aids you with aids you cant turn off, i was and still am impressed with the feel of the game, it actually made me dislike the current ISI based games since i can't "feel" as much in the isi engine as with the Forza engine.
Can't compare with GT5 yet since its not out, but i think you can only compare titles if you use the same hardware for all of them.
GT5 Prologue was awesome, but some things where still missing in the engine, ill wait till GT5 untill i really start comparing Forza and GT!
But you have to buy a 200 pound plus wheel to get decent physics. I think this already exists with Race Pro. And that's a game without a huge budget and possibly the worst FFB on console.
I'm curious what controller you use with the Xbox 360, since you are so "race pro" biased same goes for PS3, you totally dislike GT5: P so i am interested, how have you played the games, what controller do you use.
MS wheel 360. G25 PS3.
Im not biased at. I like all the games and they all have their place. Its just for me RP delivers with the physics and feel of the cars without needing masses of FFB of which i have to concede the other games deliver on a scale RP cant match. Especially GT5P with G25.
But even though excellent FFB exists with GT5P and FM3, i still think RP lets you know how the car is behaving more, imo.
I agree with Roy for a fair comparison you'd have to use the same hardware and in terms of steering wheel only the Fanatec does that which is why I bought mine to race on my PC, PS3 and 360. You don't need to spend that though to enjoy the games though, I've spent time playing each of the titles on a joypad too and I just don't know how you find RACE Pro gives better feedback on how the car is behaving without using an FFB wheel. Whether I use a wheel or joypad the cars in RACE Pro don't feel as connected to the track as the cars in Forza 3 or GT5: Prologue. What I like about the cars in Forza 3 and GT5P are the feeling of weight and inertia when you brake and corner, you feel like you have four wheels using the surface you are racing on. Nevermind the fact that the FFB in RACE Pro was so horribly broken on launch it didn't even work right on the most popular wheel on the 360 - Microsoft's very own official one! a few patches later and it works but still doesn't offer the feedback Forza 3 and GT5P offer. How you can launch a product on a console - a closed system and not be able to provide working FFB on the formats official wheel and not only that release a game with such visible graphic bugs is beyond me. I do hope this is not the last we've seen of Simbin on the console format though, hopefully they will learn from this.
I do agree RP feels horrible with a control pad. But i have the same issues as you do with RP when playing GT5P and FM3. I just cant seem to make the cars feel connected, more so on FM3 to be fair. I see what you say about Race Pro's graphics but then again it is essentially a port of Race 07. I suppose you could consider it Sim Bin's prologue, and their just testing the water of the console market. Problem is due to lack of dev support, and the unfinished, unpolished product we got then it may have scared folk off the next title.
I don't know how you could try to excuse it by saying "its just a port" or "consider it Sim Bin's prologue". RACE Pro was a standalone product, built using their new Lizard engine. They produced a game for closed system so its not like a PC where they have multiple hardware configurations to test it on. They may have been testing the water with this product but that does not excuse the state it was released in which was quite frankly horribly broken. The graphical bugs are there for anyone to see and even after a number of patches they are still there - that is inexcusable. A few oddities here and there may have been acceptable, more so if they are down to the system hardware limitations like poorer AA from one system to another. The lack of developer and publisher support will have damaged Simbin's reputation in the eyes of XBOX owners but hopefully not for good but it means any future title will be met by skepticism.
I've raced pretty much everything on the 360, with practically everything. I didn't like Forza with the Fanantec. Anyone who has raced at a very high level on Forza will know that brake pressures are stupid high on that game (you'll be killed in the braking zones if you run anything uner 125% pressure.) This means, as a driver, you're forced to be so fine with your braking that you can only use your big toe and push it down like half an inch, otherwise you will cause a severe lock up. This type of braking is almost impossible with the Fantatec brakes, because they are so stiff. But braking on that game is just brutal with any equipment, so if I were you I would get the heck away from anything Forza. It's a bad game, and a terrible sim-racer. Not only that, but you can't make many adjustments with your FFB, so that's a down side.
As for Race Pro, now that's a sim right there. I've been on the PC about 5 months now, and still I remember some of the classic races I had on Race Pro. It's not as tough as Race 07, but it is a sim, no questions asked. If you're looking for a fun drive, I'd recommend you pop in your copy of Race Pro.
But to get back to the topic. Forza or GT5? Easily GT5. I've been told by a few of my console budies that it isn't THAT sim, but it at least has potential. Forza 3 has no future.
Yeah Forza 3 would be a better game with improvements to the lighting and the brakes are still too touchy. It is a good game, but some cars need abs turned on. GT5 Prologue is better and GT5 will be amazing, probably the best sim for a few years.
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