Formula One to Scrap 'Halo' Concept

[Qazdar Karim]

Safety sterelizes the show

 

[ltcars]

Safety sterelizes the show

But fun should not be to the cost of safety

 

[Neilski]

I think aesthetically it would look best if it ran at the same sort of angle as nose section, rather than the abrupt angle we see in the Red Bull concept. By the looks of it this is something they are looking at.

Possibly nicer to look at, yeah, but I strongly suspect that the Red Bull design is driven by "easier to look out of". The gently sloping designs would, I expect, suffer from horrible reflections and maybe distortion too.

 

[Qazdar Karim]

But fun should not be to the cost of safety

Nothing then will justify those drivers ridiculous salaries or the ticket price

 

[CC]

Nothing then will justify those drivers ridiculous salaries or the ticket price

Safety is Safety man , that,s why they invented condoms

 

[Ryno917]

Possibly nicer to look at, yeah, but I strongly suspect that the Red Bull design is driven by "easier to look out of". The gently sloping designs would, I expect, suffer from horrible reflections and maybe distortion too.

That was my first thought, too.

Safety sterelizes the show

How does putting the 'shield' on an F1 car make the racing more boring? The argument is completely baseless.

Furthermore, if the sport is only interesting to you if people get hurt, than you need a new hobby.

 

[Reb.Ellion]

-

 

[Qazdar Karim]

Not baseless at all: when i watch a show, i want to see people doing things that i wouldn't be able to do. Danger is part of it, and it's one of the very few things left to be excited about.

It's like watching a box game with fighters wearing armors.

Putting a shield doesn't solve the problem at all, and will probably add more complications. I'm talking about rainy conditions, teams already struggling with weight limitations ... beside the fact that it will make cars look uglier.

Chasing safety is a lost cause.

 

[Daniel Beard]

Once upon a time, real men strapped the fastest, best handling cars in the world to their backs and raced to see who was the best and bravest. The wheels were open to save weight, there was no roof to keep the centre of gravity low and minimise frontal area. They knew the risks. Every one knows the risks. 200MPH in a car tends to have potential health implications. But, the best and bravest eventually made way for 'image' and drivers that were more 'marketable' (ie, Blackberry toting, gold chain encrusted systems operator, Louis Hamilton).

With all of the available drone technology available, why doesn't the FIA simply kneel to the pussy generation and have the cars remotely operated from a sterile, bubble wrap and teddy bear lined room buried a mile beneath the earth.

Sadly, outside of grassroots and club level motorsport, the only place you will find REAL drivers is sideways in the forests. Rally is the last breed of motorsport where total commitment, raw courage and just being a supreme driver is more important than which systems operator can manage his energy recovery systems the best.

 

[Andrew Harper]

Possibly nicer to look at, yeah, but I strongly suspect that the Red Bull design is driven by "easier to look out of". The gently sloping designs would, I expect, suffer from horrible reflections and maybe distortion too.

Fair point, but I would imagine it's an issue that's been largely solved on fighter canopies so hopefully the moulding will be good enough for that not to be an issue. I agree with you though it would definitely need lots of prototypes and testing on until it works properly. It was really just my idea of what an attractive canopy solution system would look like. Judging by the concept image it looks like the screen will be much lower, almost like a ramp rather than a screen. As mentioned by others on here, as a way of deflecting objects. There was an argument that the Red Bull type screen would badly hurt the aero around the car anyway. I guess that's why the HALO initially looked why it did, the air flows through it rather than over/around it.

I think people forget that F1 is watched by millions, it's a global brand as well as a global sport. If someone gets injured (or worse) the organisation is under immense pressure to be seen to do something about it.

Motorsport will never be totally safe we all know that, yes you could argue that some measures are over the top (overlong safety cars for example, circuits with miles of runoff) but I would rather see a driver have an accident and walk away, than being carried away in an ambulance, doesn't matter which motorsport it is.

 

[ltcars]

Once upon a time, real men strapped the fastest, best handling cars in the world to their backs and raced to see who was the best and bravest. The wheels were open to save weight, there was no roof to keep the centre of gravity low and minimise frontal area. They knew the risks. Every one knows the risks. 200MPH in a car tends to have potential health implications. But, the best and bravest eventually made way for 'image' and drivers that were more 'marketable' (ie, Blackberry toting, gold chain encrusted systems operator, Louis Hamilton).

With all of the available drone technology available, why doesn't the FIA simply kneel to the pussy generation and have the cars remotely operated from a sterile, bubble wrap and teddy bear lined room buried a mile beneath the earth.

Sadly, outside of grassroots and club level motorsport, the only place you will find REAL drivers is sideways in the forests. Rally is the last breed of motorsport where total commitment, raw courage and just being a supreme driver is more important than which systems operator can manage his energy recovery systems the best.

I don't think Allen McNish would have survived this without the safety of the monocoque. Additionally the cars look goddamn sexy

 

[ltcars]

And I personally watch F1 or racing because of the fast cars and not because of the excitement about the question who is getting killed next

 

[Bobby Deacs]

It’s a good compromise and a natural extension of the tiny screen they have now. It will look good for sure and will “aid” visibility in the rain as it will deflect most of it over the top of the driver.

However, I can’t help feeling that something will be lost and also that the argument will never be settled 100% until they enclose the cockpit fully. I am not convinced that it would have saved Jules, but it would definitely have saved Massa from his serious injury.

For me, F1 has a massive issue at the moment which is far more important to resolve – when Bottas is holding up half the field, yet there is no way past him other than undercutting him in the pits, there’s something drastically wrong. They need to clean that dirty air somehow, be it by reducing the aero or dissipating it in some clever way. They also need to redesign Hermann Tilke’s tracks to allow cars to go through corners side-by-side again, instead of being forced to converge onto a single, tight driving-line. His tracks may be good for “driving”, but they are appalling for “racing” and he clearly hasn’t learnt a thing over the years as Mexico was once a great racing track but is now the worst one on the calendar. Apologies for off-topic rant, but he must be stopped from ruining the sport even more!

 

[Kevin Bradley]

Safety sterelizes the show

Yeah, i agree. While we're at it why don't we turn the hurdles in athletics into giant spikes and change the corner flags on a football pitch into flamethrowers .

Seriously what's wrong with adding a small inoffensive design feature that improves the safety of the sport? What's the difference between this and say for example when they added tethered wheel nuts to the cars to stop wheels bouncing down the track after a crash?

Don't get me wrong, there are things done in the name of safety that annoy me (such as starting a race under a safety car when the track is slightly damp), but here we are talking about a simple addition to the cars that will potentially prevent a serious injury or worse and doesn't detract from the spectacle in the slightest.

 

[Erwin Greven]

I don't think Allen McNish would have survived this without the safety of the monocoque. Additionally the cars look goddamn sexy

Or Loic Duval in 2014.

 

[CC]

And I personally watch F1 or racing because of the fast cars and not because of the excitement about the question who is getting killed next

Its a piece of plastic to protect drivers from debris , and harder compound objects ,
It looks ok and its for safety,
Cant see what all the fuss is about , its spoiling nothing at all .

 

[Daniel Beard]

I don't think Allen McNish would have survived this without the safety of the monocoque. Additionally the cars look goddamn sexy

That's the point. It is something that very few people that missed out on the 80's and 90's really don't get. Eau Rouge used to be THE corner. Only the insane had the balls to take it flat and reap the rewards down the straight. Schumacher was a legend for it. In '93 and '94 the Benetton was severely underpowered, yet he made it super competitive and a great big chunk of time was made up every time he was the only mad bastard flat through Eau Rouge. Now, with cars and tracks made so safe that there is no bravery element, you don't see the same sort of driving. Eau Rouge has been heavily modified to give the whole field the ability to take it flat. Accidents are far more common too, as there is a lack of respect between the drivers and no need to give anyone breathing room. Such is why the turn 1 dive bomb happens every 2nd damn race.

Everyone is a late braker now too. Back in the days when outbraking yourself ended in a degree of physical pain, most gave room for error. There would always be one, though, (like Senna) who had the uncanny ability to brake impossibly late simply because he was better at balancing the weight of the car and avoiding letting wheels go light to the point where they locked. His ability to vary braking pressure as the car rode over bumps was beyond anything seen before or since.

No one wants to see drivers injured or dead. Unfortunately, everything is a compromise. The consequence of better protection of the drivers is the focus on technical proficiency over bravery. F1 is an engineer's sport. So is Le Mans. The last real era of real men driving real cars was the International Group A Touring Cars and the various national and international series that ran the Group A rules.

Go and watch a bunch of old races. The quality of the driving and the racing was simply better.

 

[Ryno917]

Not baseless at all: when i watch a show, i want to see people doing things that i wouldn't be able to do. Danger is part of it, and it's one of the very few things left to be excited about.

Being excited about the prospect of a driver being hurt or killed is absolutely stupid. There. I said it. If that's what gets you excited about racing, stop watching it. I'm sick of people I look up to getting killed because of armchair warriors saying that they need to be in danger for their own morose excitement. It's simply pathetic.

Putting a shield doesn't solve the problem at all, and will probably add more complications. I'm talking about rainy conditions, teams already struggling with weight limitations

A properly engineered solution will solve, or severely reduce, the problem. As for added complications? It may make some things worse in some fringe situations, but if it makes things better in the majority situations then it has a net gain, and is therefore a positive solution.

... beside the fact that it will make cars look uglier.

So? It's racing, not a beauty pageant. Some shouldn't have to die because you think the vehicle isn't pretty enough. That's insane on the face of it. Not to mention the fact that F1 cars have been very ugly for the last 20 years anyways. They are not pretty machines. And I'll note that uggo-factor has nothing to do with safety; their ugliness has all come from engineers trying to maximize potential under the rules. And the rules are mostly in place because of tradition.

Chasing safety is a lost cause.

No, it isn't. Just look at the massive strides that have been made in the last 50 years. I'll repeat what I said before; F1 isn't boring because safety has increased. F1 is boring because there's no passing on track, and there is not one single safety measure that has lead to that, it's purely down to what makes the cars fast (downforce). And again, if people have to die for you to be interested in the sport than there is a serious issue.

Once upon a time, real men strapped the fastest, best handling cars in the world to their backs and raced to see who was the best and bravest.

If that's what determines what makes someone a man, then not a single person on this forum is a man. Useless platitudes do nothing.

The wheels were open to save weight, there was no roof to keep the centre of gravity low and minimise frontal area.

Those things are all still true of a modern F1 car, and they're still pretty damn safe all things considered.

They knew the risks. Every one knows the risks. 200MPH in a car tends to have potential health implications. But, the best and bravest eventually made way for 'image' and drivers that were more 'marketable' (ie, Blackberry toting, gold chain encrusted systems operator, Louis Hamilton).

Knowing the risks doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't be mitigated. Racing is entertainment. It's still dangerous, and it always will be, but that's no reason to not try to make things safer. The computer technology doesn't make the cars safer, it makes them faster, which is obviously antithetic to safety. You've gone off on an unrelated tangent. Louis Hamilton's persona has nothing to do with the safety factor of the sport (not to mention he's still a very skilled driver, whether you will admit it or not. I wouldn't put him in the top 5 or even top 10, but he's still a damn sight better than anyone else here).

Sadly, outside of grassroots and club level motorsport, the only place you will find REAL drivers is sideways in the forests. Rally is the last breed of motorsport where total commitment, raw courage and just being a supreme driver is more important than which systems operator can manage his energy recovery systems the best.

Where do you think professional drivers come from? Grassroots and club level motorsport. They don't just materialize from thin air. While pay drivers do exist in top level motorsport, they always have. Always. Even in the 50s and 60s when it was hugely dangerous. As an aside, if you think John Smith from the Whatever Random Backwoods Club Series can hold a candle to 'Systems Operator Lewis Hamilton' then you're seriously delusional. The fact that some guy spends all his meager life savings to keep a Porsche 944 semi-operational at an empty race track in a club race doesn't make him a real racer, it makes him a guy who loves racing and does what he can to do it in real life, regardless of skill level.

You seriously sound like you're just mad that F1 is boring. And that has nothing to do with safety. It has everything to do with it being a stupid way to design a race car if you want a close race.

Like I mentioned previously - WEC provides some damned exciting racing. It's still massively high tech, massively fast and massively safe.

Everyone is a late braker now too. Back in the days when outbraking yourself ended in a degree of physical pain, most gave room for error. There would always be one, though, (like Senna) who had the uncanny ability to brake impossibly late simply because he was better at balancing the weight of the car and avoiding letting wheels go light to the point where they locked. His ability to vary braking pressure as the car rode over bumps was beyond anything seen before or since.

So, your argument is that now that everyone can go flat out, it's worse? You think that people not driving flat out was better? What? That doesn't even make sense!

 

[Daniel Beard]

Come to think of it, I forgot a form of motorsport that is entirely bade up of the brave and the clinically insane: Moto GP.

I'm not a huge fan of bikes, but I have infinite respect for the balls those guys have. I can comprehend driving a touring car, rally car or open wheeler. I cannot comprehend racing a bike with all my soft part outside of the vehicle.

 

[Ryno917]

Come to think of it, I forgot a form of motorsport that is entirely bade up of the brave and the clinically insane: Moto GP.

I'm not a huge fan of bikes, but I have infinite respect for the balls those guys have. I can comprehend driving a touring car, rally car or open wheeler. I cannot comprehend racing a bike with all my soft part outside of the vehicle.

Growing up, I was never interested in bike racing. Looking at it now, I blame the commentary. It was always so dull and monotoned when I watched, it made the great racing seem boring.