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Formula One Going Green. Is It Actually Worth It ?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by RaceDepartment, Jan 9, 2013.

  1. RaceDepartment

    RaceDepartment
    Administrator Staff

    Bram Hengeveld submitted a new blog post:

    Formula One Going Green. Is It Actually Worth It ?

    Continue reading the Original Blog Post
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2013
  2. Bram

    Bram
    Roaring Pipes Maniacs | #27 Staff Premium Member

    Spot on!

    Although I am not against the sport becoming greener from an inovation point of view I can't stand the hypocrisy. The moment the entire F1 circus will travel by solar powered vehicles, boats and planes ill applaud them. For the rest stop the green marketing and let us enjoy the raw sounding engines.
     
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  3. Knut Omdal Tveito

    Knut Omdal Tveito
    Premium Member

    I think that's missing the point a little bit. The emissions from F1 has very little impact. But it's about developing technology that's relevant for production cars.

    Past years we have seen nothing new on the engine front. And there is very little relevance for road cars. 18000 rpm, pneumatic valves etc...

    The race-winning innovations have been things like double diffuser, double DRS etc which is rather pointless outside F1.

    With the switch to turbos, fuel restrictions and hybrid drivetrains it could result in new technology that could actually find it's way to a road car. Just look at Toyota and their JGTC program and Audi at Le Mans
     
  4. If the point of the change is to develop new technologies then why aren't all the efforts focused towards Formula E to get the electric engines working efficiently and attempt to find a way of increasing the life of the power cells ?
     
  5. Though I agree with the article and also see the "Green F1" as a facade, I think the change of engines can be seen in a different light. I'm no expert, but what if the new engines help a bit to close the gap between F1 cars and road-going cars? Honestly, F1, like NASCAR, is next to useless in terms of developing and proving technology that can be found on regular cars. Another advantage that the new engine regulations could be, I think, an increase in participating brands which could benefit the sport greatly.

    Still, I agree. F1 shouldn't dress in gree, because after all it's just a dress.
     
  6. Tom

    Tom
    Staff Emeritus Staff

    A single Airbus A380 starting from London Heathrow is probably blowing more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere than 24 Formula One cars during a whole race. Anyway, a really cool thing is the ALMS Green X Challenge - they judge cars by their ability to run quickly on low fuel etc. during each ALMS race.
     
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  7. There is a fairly simple equation here. A fixed quantity of fuel can only produce a fixed quantity of power. Sure you can 'optimize' things a little, but greener has to mean less power. A V10 making 800Bhp is going to consume a similar amount of fuel to a V6 Turbo making 800Bhp assuming both engines are are of a similar efficiency and F1 engines are optimised for power whatever the configuration. To be green with any real impact would mean much smaller engines with far less power..... cant really see the sport down grading to 400Bhp
     
  8. Chris Hempsall

    Chris Hempsall
    Moderator

    I don't know how Formula 1 can stay relevant if it is not shown to be at least trying to go green. This is the 21st century, an age many of us have had forced upon us, but that's the way the world is now. It's recycle this and lower emissions that. And of course the youth of today are forcefed this at school, so there's your future generation of fans right there, already being programmed to hate the beautiful roar of an engine instead of love it. Let's face it fella's, we're old, with an old opinion that isn't relevant in today's society.

    You could go to a conference and argue that we should keep F1 the way it is, and no matter what facts you are armed with, you will be booed off stage and called an eco-terrorist.

    Our day is done, so the best we can hope for is that the new regs still keep the sport at least entertaining, even if it is quiet, and a little bit slower.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Marian Zelenka

    Marian Zelenka
    The downforce is strong with this one. Premium Member

    I disagree. This is just a sport and should be fun watching it. If cars are fast, loud and good looking, that's all fans need to see.

    Even when all family cars will be electric, I don't see a problem watching loud alcohol powered cars. It will be even more atractive in my opinion because it will be something unseen in everyday life.
     
  10. I agree with both you and chris, I don't think we can ignore the enviromental issues but the main problem is caused by the transport of the cars rather than the cars which makes the engine change near pointless and the engineers working on the new engines would be better assigned to working on the electric motors for Formula E which will have a much greater effect than the new engines if introduced and developed correctly.
     
  11. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin
    Premium Member

    if F1 want to be greener then they should just organize the events so the teams arent flying back and forth across the world so start in Australia , do asia , middle east then europe and finish in the americas instead of trundling back and forth and give up on the need for tyres with planned obsolescence
     
  12. New challenge is the sole reason for the introduction of V6 Turbo and I'll not worry about the sound, once I remember very well the sounds of the BMW M12/13 (Brabham BT 52/…), the Renault V6 Turbo, 12 cils from BRM and Ferrari, Honda V10 among many others.

    The Formula One will never die despite the sounds of the cars once as, definitely, the Formula 1 Championship will be always the summit of Motor Sport.

    Great 2013 for you all!!!
     
  13. Sk3ptik0n

    Sk3ptik0n
    Premium Member

    Short answer? No.
    And I am saying this from the point of view of someone that is very supportive of conservation programs. I even believe in global warming.

    I believe that regulations should deal with safety and fairness, as well as trying to limit budgets somewhat, but fuel consumption? In race consumption is a fraction of what it takes to transport the teams from race to race, as others have noted. F1 risks to alienate those of us that watch it and support it while they won't please those that are against it on environmental issues.
     
  14. What I like the most about F1 is the technological development, these regulations create new challenges so I am interested to see what can be done. I would like some more leeway in the innovative pieces (like for example KERS, which was too limited to make it really interesting, making many teams drop it the first season it was introduced). I am intrigued about the TERS, turbo and others.

    I do not care much for the noise, and I neither see the problem for the cars to be slower than other seasons. They will be driven at the limit no matter where the limit is, and it is not like they are going to crawl at 150 kph at the end of the main straight.

    Moreover, less powerful engines and aero cuts will likely make mechanical grip more important, which can improve close racing. I hate when a slightly faster car has to back down because his car-plane simply cannot turn when he is too close to the double diffuser in front.
     
  15. 1st thing. Downsize and turbocharge is the current trend in motor world.
    2nd thing. Motor world has inseparable ties with motor sport due to innovations and publicity. Championship titles sell brands.
    You can't sell 0.9, 1.2, 1.4 T etc, if the pinnacle of motorsport doesn't lead the way.

    Don't worry about the discarded sound of 2.4 v8s, It is terrible, my toy helicopter sounds better.
    A renault turbo V6 1.5 or Honda v12 sounds like god in contrast.
    V6 turbo, bring it on.
     
  16. But formula 1 is getting green.
    This season we have only 22 cars instead of 24 so thats 2 cars greener then last season :p
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. I'm not against using smaller, more efficient, 'greener' engines in F1. They are capable of propelling the cars to the same level of performance. Reduction is better than no reduction. Ultimately however, F1 still has to be about racing. It'll never be totally green. It still has to be about the fastest, most effective team and the best car. That is one of the reasons I absolutely hate the no refuel, tire 'babysitting' rules. They don't really get to who is ultimately the fastest or best driver...just who is luckiest or smartest at conservation.
     
  18. I think the need for an engine to roar or growl to still be impressive is indeed a current and past generation (age) kind a thing. If we already would've grown up in a century where all you hear is air displacement and megavolts wining through wires, all this screeming will probably be like watching a black and white movie from the 1930's.
    Imagine what other sounds you could hear when the exhaust sound isn't there anymore (friction noises, hydraulics, ...)
    I'm just trying to be open for change here, it's not (at all) that I don't love a V10 engine sound.

    If tomorrow a car will go as fast or faster than an F1 car by using some hybrid subatomic computer controlled chemistry, while making far less noise, in a smaller engine, I will be at the edge of my chair wanting to know all about it.

    I think what F1 needs, instead of conservation of big block engine noise, is to further develop the 'sports' engine, wherever that takes us. And of course it will optimized for (fuel?) efficiency, that's just part of the fun and science of developing such a thing.