Cars Ford Transit 2005 (WIP)

[Rupe Wilson]

Guy Martin's Van may be a bit extreme i know. But Van racing round the Green Hell on racing tires, that got to be fun, and would make a great club event for sure.. I remember driving the Reiza Formula Trucks round in a club event so much Fun...

 

[garyjpaterson]

Guy Martin's Van may be a bit extreme i know. But Van racing round the Green Hell on racing tires, that got to be fun, and would make a great club event for sure.. I remember driving the Reiza Formula Trucks round in a club event so much Fun...

The S3 version is far more extreme

 

[Ben O'Bro]

ah it reminds me of that time i rent one to pick up my couch
position of the driver really makes a big difference, you're so high up!

How you managed not to make a Transit feel out of place on AC is amazing... Forget the trolls and congrats on that

ps, seeing the focus all alive, it looks real good

 

[mantasisg]

That thing would be good for fast deliveries

Reminded me XJ220 with Transit body, that Ford Transit is amazing car, endless possibilities.

 

[Rupe Wilson]

That things was amazing going up Goodwood hill, Wolf in sheep's clothing, until the opened the back doors to reveal the engine

 

[Ben Lee]

Gary, I thought it could be kinda fun to do a regular version of the van, then make the "S1" version the same van as Top Gear used, but minus the weight they saved from the jack, spare wheel, spare seats they threw away in the show. Obviously it would need to be an estimate how much weight to remove, but it could be a nice wink wink to the episode.

 

[garyjpaterson]

That things was amazing going up Goodwood hill, Wolf in sheep's clothing, until the opened the back doors to reveal the engine

Indeed.

The S2 is really just a ridiculous engine swap with some minor tweaks, still has the live axle leaf sprung setup so feels very Transit-like, just amplified.

The S3 is admittedly very loosely related, as the chassis/suspension is all new custom built, mid-engined with a lot of aero. Should be competitive with the GT3 class through having a bit more power but a lot more drag.

S1 is still undecided - I could estimate the weight saved plus the drag reduction of the taped-up panels, but in all honesty I feel it would be so marginal, not sure its worth it. I'm instead tempted with just en 'ECU tune' to try and keep up with the MX-5, as the 'little and large' races could prove very entertaining.

Open to suggestions.

-----

Bit off-topic but the Focus was in the video Been chatting to Aris regarding the Torsen diff and how best to implement it (well its not really a Torsen, but a similar concept (quaife atb) - I must stress he didn't have any direct input, just some pointers so if its terrible and unrealistic its 100% my fault!

But with a series of active controllers its feeling awesome, very adjustable with torque input (both throttle and brakes). Should be fun

 

[Mr Whippy]

Doesn't AC do TorSen yet?

I think you could approximate the behaviour a bit though soooo.

Such a shame though.

Does AC have enough active controllers to do a diff a bit like the new Fiesta ST and the Mini Cooper S had (basically braking spinning wheels to send torque to the other wheel?)

 

[After_Midnight]

Excuse the poor driving my both me and the AI, but it should give a good sense of the speed a 390bhp Supercharged gives to a Transit van.

Picked Highlands Short to keep the video short but also as it has quite short straights, long ones and the other cars wouldn't have a chance.

Why you've mirrored the video? You're driving on the wrong side

 

[garyjpaterson]

Doesn't AC do TorSen yet?

I think you could approximate the behaviour a bit though soooo.

Such a shame though.

Does AC have enough active controllers to do a diff a bit like the new Fiesta ST and the Mini Cooper S had (basically braking spinning wheels to send torque to the other wheel?)

Nope, not natively, but there are ways around it.

But yes, electronic active diffs are possible (any car with the EDL symbol in the electronics app has this, when it flashes its doing its thing). Though bear in mind this is purely done through brakes.

Then you have differential controllers which are for mechanical diffs and has nothing to do with brakes, which allows you to control preload on many different parameters (gear, rpm, braking throttle and much more). Only problem at this point is you can't have a load controller, which I think Aris is interested in using so hopefully Stefano will look into it. I'm using a combination of these for the Focus.

Why you've mirrored the video? You're driving on the wrong side

Driving in Scotland, remember?

 

[Mr Whippy]

EDL is getting 'close', but it'll sap some power to enable the transfer of torque, wheras the proper diff will probably be loads more efficient at transferring torque.

BUT, how much different is that efficiency? Road cars today seem to go with the EDL over TorSen etc, cost, weight and complexity offset by braking systems already there for ABS and EBD already, just re-purposed to torque management.
In practice, the torque cost might be negligible. I've no doubt when the TorSen does more work, it'll also cost some torque too. Say 10Nm in braking to transfer torque, or 5Nm in worm gearing losses to transfer torque. I bet you'll not notice any way in a sim if the EDL is set up nicely.

And then you can have 'open' under coast too, which the EDL will do.

And if a wheel lifts, will that will spin away torque or will EDL brake it? That's the only missing variable where it might not be 'accurate' in character?


I feel reassured now that the FRS will feel the way it should given the tools available to you

Brmmmmm!

 

[garyjpaterson]

In AC there is no simulation of efficiency losses, you just have to take that into account for you overall torque curve.

I don't have any experience with the EDL, so not really a clue how it all works in AC, but a mechanical diff with use of active controllers, you can make it do all sorts.

As I said, right now you can't use Load as an input for the controllers - this could be extremely useful as you can then use it to be completely open under no load. Hopefully this option arrives soon though, I think Aris is quite keen on the idea.

That said, I can't be sure of the accuracy really, as there seems to be no documented bias ratio for the Quaife ATB diff used in the RS, Quaife themselves say there are countless factors that would contribute to the torque distribution, so educated guesses on this part are the best I can do.

 

[After_Midnight]

Driving in Scotland, remember?

If I'll drive with my car in Scotland (or an other country with wrong traffic sides) it will be automatic transform to a RHD? By the hands of ghosts?
SCARY
I'll never visit such countries. NEVER

 

[Mr Whippy]

I'm sure you'll find the right balance.

As per losses, so you correct for drivetrain losses by reducing engine torque?

Hmmmmm.

 

[garyjpaterson]

I'm sure you'll find the right balance.

As per losses, so you correct for drivetrain losses by reducing engine torque?

Hmmmmm.

Yep, torque at the wheels after any losses, not at the crank.

 

[aphidgod]

Super convenient system, given chassis dyno sheets are how most of us get engine power data for most cars.

Gary, I'm really interested in these discussions you've been having about torsen type diffs. I have my own methods for them, which get me results I'm happy with, but I'm always up for more perspective. It's a subject I've been interested in since adding one to my real WRX and then trying to model it in game...

 

[Mr Whippy]

Yep, torque at the wheels after any losses, not at the crank.

Oh dear. I thought AC had a proper losses system in place.

So if you're revving at the starting grid all cars are getting like 70-90% throttle to spin up their engines, rather than 100%?
That must be a bit weird, especially in lossy awd cars, they must feel like the engine is broken on the grid.

Also would this mean if the wheels are off the floor or on low friction surfaces, that they also accelerate/spin up wheels too slowly?
Hybrids that scavenge engine torque pre-drivetrain?

Rev matching taking longer during a down-shift?

Weird for a 'proper' sim.

 

[garyjpaterson]

Oh dear. I thought AC had a proper losses system in place.

So if you're revving at the starting grid all cars are getting like 70-90% throttle to spin up their engines, rather than 100%?
That must be a bit weird, especially in lossy awd cars, they must feel like the engine is broken on the grid.

Also would this mean if the wheels are off the floor or on low friction surfaces, that they also accelerate/spin up wheels too slowly?
Hybrids that scavenge engine torque pre-drivetrain?

Rev matching taking longer during a down-shift?

Weird for a 'proper' sim.

I don't think any of these are really significant problems to be honest, given that without any load on the engine 15% more power isn't really of any use or make any difference.

Yes I could see hybrid harvesting systems being a bit off, but of course you'd just compensate by making it slightly more efficient.

Plus there are engine/transmission inertia values to make sure rev matching is accurate.

 

[Mr Whippy]

10-20% power reduction on a free-spinning engine (clutched) is pretty significant for a 'simulator' imo.

KS should be ashamed of that. Just add the losses somewhere post clutch and it's all done.


At least for a Transit van with a 'slow' turbo diesel engine, and likely a heavy flywheel, I bet the time from idle to redline at 100% throttle is gonna go from say 3s to 4s with this change in power, throw in the feedback loop of the turbo (which must have fudged values too)... hmmmmm.

Just seems a shame that the engine is fudged with fake values. It's like the main part of a car haha!

 

[aphidgod]

Maybe they're just focusing on simulating driving. It seems like they haven't considered what might happen if you try to simulate sitting in your driveway revving your engine just like they haven't considered what might happen if you plant your nose in a guardrail and spin the tires for 3 minutes trying to make them blow up. It's a ****ing video game, not some automotive engineering beta test software.