PC1 Force Feedback Analysis

[vee10]

Yes another FFB thread. Don't get me wrong enjoying the game on the whole. I have been trying to work out what has been bugging me with regard to the steering and FFB. This is a issue that we had in the Codemasters F1 games, lack of road feel. I just can't work a way around it. What I am seeing on the screen from the way the car is behaving and what the FFB meter is showing and also what I am feeling through the wheel does not correlate. Take a look at Alonso's lap at Catalunya.

Look at the way his hands oscillate on the wheel they are constantly being fed infromation that is even with a high sidewall on the F1 tyre.

 

[Dave McMillan]

Oh, and the steering wheel shake animation is not physics derived - it's for aesthetics, if you like. I suppose many (most?) wheel users turn off the arms and steering wheel anyway. If you try that, perhaps there will be less discord between what you see and what you feel.

I see what you're saying, and if that's true, it's pretty bad for a sim to be shaking the driver arms for aesthetics but not simulating the real vibrations to the wheel in the FFB.

If it is a fake driver arm shake, and I'm doubtful that it is (because I can NEARLY feel every bump the driver makes in some car / track combos, still dialling in those FFB settings lol), then there should be an option to turn it off

Also turning off in-game driver and wheel is not an option for using a VR headset (which i've used 90% of my time in pCARS), and when using that it's even more of an immersion killer when it feels like your in-game hands are getting more feedback than your real ones.

 

[DrJustice]

^ Good point about VR. I'd like to be able to turn off the wheel shake too, even if it's not that a big deal for me and I'm not using VR. You can be certain that it's an animation because your physical steering wheel position is the one that determines the angle of the rack and the wheels, i.e. it's rigidly connected. I don't think the shake as much "worse" than e.g. cockpit movement in sims though - it can't be known exactly how your body would move around in that cockpit, although I regard cockpit movements as very relevant since they do convey something that's actually happening.

 

[Sele1981]

Sounds good, I look forward to adding a 2 or 4 point tactile feedback system

Have you not found Simvibe settings that feel good to you in pCARS? I've started writing my own physics derived tactile feedback software, so hopefully between that and Simvibe I'll find something to satisfy.

Oh, and the steering wheel shake animation is not physics derived - it's for aesthetics, if you like. I suppose many (most?) wheel users turn off the arms and steering wheel anyway. If you try that, perhaps there will be less discord between what you see and what you feel.

I was using the same settings that I use in IR. Now I turned the sensivity for road bumps down and it feels ok. I almost have 1:1 feedback from the wheel and simvibe now. Transducers are shaking a bit more on bumps than the wheel but its ok when you get used to it.

I guess a lot of people, including me, are hoping for a patch from SMS with canned effects for road feeling/bumps. With an on and off option like in AC so whoever wants it can use it.

 

[vee10]

To be honest that doesn't look like proper FFB either from the graph. It looks like the center step you get in FFB by turning the deadzone removal setting up too high.

I am not sure what you mean by centre step? I only have a lowly DFGT and this is the only setting that allows me to feel like the tyres are connected to the road on the straights. Although it looks like a quite large spike, through the actual wheel it is a tiny rumble effect which is what I have been trying to find in the myriad of settings in PCars. My wheel feels something like it does in RF2 now which is the pinnacle of wheel feel.

 

[vee10]

Paul, I think your onto something there, I just tried messing with that setting, 0.30 was way too erratic, but I've dialed it down to 0.06 feels pretty good on those long straights now, will tinker a bit more

Glad it helped you a bit Paul. Must be a Paul thing but I know we have both been frustrated by the feel on the straights. Out of interest what wheel do you run?

 

[PaulH]

Glad it helped you a bit Paul. Must be a Paul thing but I know we have both been frustrated by the feel on the straights. Out of interest what wheel do you run?

Thrustmaster TX, but that setting has definitely made a difference, will try that wheel check thing later(although I do hate spending so much time on FFB , RF2 nailed easy setup FFB )

 

[Ace King]

We now have some FFB in a straight line.

Deadzone removal range 0.30

It's difficult to believe that your wheel would have such a huge 30% deadzone!

 

[DrJustice]

...I guess a lot of people, including me, are hoping for a patch from SMS with canned effects for road feeling/bumps. With an on and off option like in AC so whoever wants it can use it.

You could try enabling some of the effects in an FFB tweaker. I don't know what the state of them are, but these are the possibilities:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
<!-- Controlling canned effects. -->
<config>
  <value TopologyVersion="4" />
  <value DisableScrub="false" />
  <value DisableThrottleVibe="false" />
  <value DisableJolt="false" />
  <value DisableWheelSpin="false" />
  <value DisableGearChange="false" />
  <value DisableRumbleStrip="false" />
</config>

 

[vee10]

It's difficult to believe that your wheel would have such a huge 30% deadzone!

I have actually lowered it to 0.18 which seems to be in the right area for all Logitech wheels. Seems to be a better compromise, would still love a bit more FFB on the straights though.

 

[Ace King]

Using the wheel check utility my G25 showed a deadzone of 14% (0.14) and used this figure ingame which made a a decent improvement.

 

[vee10]

A lot better straight line FFB with out clipping or the wheel rattling to bits. FFB feels pretty epic now.
Deadzone removal back down to a sensible 0.05.

Thanks to @lolasd for some ideas were to go with the settings.

 

[Sele1981]

A lot better straight line FFB with out clipping or the wheel rattling to bits. FFB feels pretty epic now.
Deadzone removal back down to a sensible 0.05.

Thanks to @lolasd for some ideas were to go with the settings.

So we need to add scoop reduction to get ffb on the straight?

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Isn't Scoop Reduction set to that by default? It is in my game.

 

[vee10]

So we need to add scoop reduction to get ffb on the straight?

Lou is correct it is the default. Try lowering the linkage stiffness & damping.

 

[monsieurjackb]

So we need to add scoop reduction to get ffb on the straight?

It was the deadzone removal range setting that did it for me, I'm still working on ffb as its still not as 'alive' as AC, it's still a little dull but I'm getting there

 

[Sele1981]

It was the deadzone removal range setting that did it for me, I'm still working on ffb as its still not as 'alive' as AC, it's still a little dull but I'm getting there

Hmm I have the CSW V2 and the Wheel Checker App says deadzone should be set to 0. I´ll give it a try later and set it to 0.05 to see what will happen.

 

[monsieurjackb]

Hmm I have the CSW V2 and the Wheel Checker App says deadzone should be set to 0. I´ll give it a try later and set it to 0.05 to see what will happen.

Yeah mines a Fanatec csr so a similar system and I set it to 0.25 and have the fall off set to 0.03 because I feel the need for a deadzone in there somewhere otherwise you get that horrible vibrating effect where the left and right forces sort of blend/grind. Your wheel is a better model so you can probably have a narrower deadzone without that problem. I mean I've gotten to a point where there is no noticeable deadzone but it's all about finding that balance...problem is, it's pretty damn hard to find in project cars

 

[vee10]

There appears to be many ways to get a decent setting which all depend on personal preference, wheel type, age of wheel etc etc.

The main thing I suppose is that you are happy, the problem is
if anyone is like me you always feel like you are missing out if you don't keep tweaking!

 

[Majnu]

I understand what the deadzone removal range is (p.s I guess that every wheel is different and we should use the iRacing WheelCheck app to find ours, for my T500 it's 0.02), but what is the removal falloff ?

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Lou is correct it is the default. Try lowering the linkage stiffness & damping.

Ah OK - thought the highlighted field was the one to change.