Floaty != Floaty?

xnorb · Jun 23, 2015

Heya guys,

reading through the FFB thread i got confused - or i got the solution to the "problem" i have with R3E which might not even be a problem at all.

I purchased the WTCC2013 package, hopped into the Seat Leon and it just felt great.
Gone was the floatiness of the free car (can't remmeber which one i drove)

Yesterday i took the Honda Civic for a quick race around Nürburgring GP and BAMM the floatiness was back. Screwed around with FFB settings and steering settings and whatnot, but the floatiness was still there.

Now, what does "floatiness" mean?
To me it's the behavior of the car when i steer while driving.
The Seat Leon reacts as i would expect. Car tends into a slight understeer when cornering and to turn the car enough you have to slow down.
The Honda Civic in contrary to that turns in as if it's driving on ice.
No matter the speed, it's always happily turning in instantly.

So why is this?
Both cars are FWDs, so both should tend to understeer but the behavior of the Civic is really really weird.

Thanks guys for any input, because this is one of the biggest issues i got with R3E atm.

theravenousbeast · Jun 23, 2015

Default setups aren't that great in R3E in my opinion. The Honda is the fastest car from that pack but I found that I need to dial in some understeer in the setup. I soften up the rear ARB, the springs and run either .9 or .15 toe (positive values).
Another thing is stiffening the front shocks, this makes the car less eager to turn in sharply. Again, helps a lot of cars, especially the DTM 1992 cars.
The thing with the WTCC cars, though, is you want to have that (to a degree) sharp, quick weight transfer because of the inherent issues with FWD.

I haven't driven the Seat a lot but it felt a lot more balanced with the default setup. Again, just work on the setup and you can get the car to feel much more to your liking.

xnorb · Jun 24, 2015

Thanks for that input.
I already imagined it could be connected to completely different setups.

Still it leaves me with the main question:
Shouldn't such behavior be basically physically impossible?
We got a FWD, front engine car and no matter what i attempt to achieve by tuning the setup, while braking there will always be all the weight on the front tires, pushing the car along it's previous path rather than ending up with a completely loose front.

Could it be that there's a basic physics flaw in R3E's engine?

I mean, it's bearable if it can be fixed by tweaking the car setup, but still...

shardshunt · Jun 25, 2015

xnorb said:
Could it be that there's a basic physics flaw in R3E's engine?
I mean, it's bearable if it can be fixed by tweaking the car setup, but still...

remember that wtcc 13 is on old physics, wtcc 14 had huge changes and feels a better (if not perfect)

xnorb · Jun 25, 2015

Hmmm, i may have to rethink my opinion on the business model then once again

If WTCC2013 is officially broken and not fixed but WTCC2014 is having proper physics (just assuming here) then ... i mean ... that doesn't sound good, does it?

shardshunt · Jun 25, 2015

xnorb said:
Hmmm, i may have to rethink my opinion on the business model then once again
If WTCC2013 is officially broken and not fixed but WTCC2014 is having proper physics (just assuming here) then ... i mean ... that doesn't sound good, does it?

Not broken that's just your opinion. They are just not as good as you would expect from older content

Andy Kettler · Jun 25, 2015

@xnorb:

"The car is designed for ultimate performance, with driveability remaining an important but secondary consideration. In order to maintain full throttle through certain higher speed corners, the overall balance is adjusted to match. Due to the considerable weight transfer of a relatively high CG (center of gravity) touring car this means lifting the throttle has a significant bearing on the balance of the vehicle, compounded by the front drive nature. Throttle control is thus extremely important in these vehicles, a very slight lift often enough to cure substantial understeer in the car, while jumping right off the throttle is likely to induce massive oversteer."

http://rfactor.net/web/rf2/cars/honda-civic-ngtc-touring-car/

This is for all FWD race cars and not only for the civic..!

xnorb · Jun 26, 2015

Might be on paper, but just compare the Leon and the Civic, they handle like completely different cars and i'm also not talking about releasing throttle or braking, the handling stays the same through the whole scale - from mid speed corners to high speed corners, during braking, during accelerating...