FIA Approves Merger Between WTCC and TCR. WTCR Is Here!

[Ryno917]

Just saw that, apparently, the entry fee is steep. 150K Euros for a two-car team for the season. So much for attractive privateers

 

[Peevee88]

It's good for tin-top racing as it is a series that can grow globally

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

The winner of a race can score 25, 27 or 30 points depending on which race it is... That seems odd to me.

Probably a heritage from somebody who came up with the extremely idiotic WTCC rules of the last seasons.

 

[Ryan Soucy]

Probably a heritage from somebody who came up with the extremely idiotic WTCC rules of the last seasons.

I can see the different weights to the wins. I don't think someone who wins a reversed grid race should get as many points as the guy who starts first after 3 phases of qualy. That's that this points breakdown does. 25 points for reversed grid winner, 30 for knockout qualy winner.

I too don't like the 26 car cap. I suppose we'll at least get 13 decent teams, which is important. But most tracks could probably fit up to 32. I'm looking forward to the new season anyway. Time to renew the Autosport subscription... (so expensive and slow to the US!)

 

[apex11]

TCR, like GT3 and GT4, is a commercial arm for most manufacturers. They don't need to make the cars road relevant because it isn't about advertising to the public, it's about selling cars to the teams. Audi didn't sell 200 GT3s and 100 TCRs based on road car sales. They sold them to wealthy customers who want to race them.

You won't see things like GT3, GT4 and TCR going electric. Those are profit centres for manufacturers and will remain that way.

Simply not true, motorsport has always been a great excuse to have a play and once manufactures get involved with factory teams they want to develop and sell of the back of it the road cars, which will be electric.
You are looking at TCR as basically a privateer series, but WTCC has always been for the manufactures until it started to go backwards..but even then we have had Citroen and Volvo plus Lada and Honda still at it.
So you need to understand what this merger is doing, its hoping to keep the level of high end series for want of less clumsy wording, but adding the fast rising TCR teams too... but if you really think that WTCR isn't trying to gain the big factory teams then you are simply a bit mad.
Factory teams will not bother racing with out dated engines and spending millions....
They will go electric.
By 2019 Volvo will only sell electric cars..now why in Gods name would then then spend millions racing petrol cars???
Huh?? come on....
I'm not saying i'm happy with it, but any serious series hoping to gain factory teams will be looking towards electric. TCR have been doing this....

 

[Ryno917]

By 2019 Volvo will only sell electric cars..

My understanding was that Volvo will offer electric versions of all of its cars, but it certainly will not be only electric for the full lineup. That would be colossally stupid. Electric cars still don't make money for manufacturers yet, no contemporary manufacturer will go all electric right now. They still need to turn a profit

 

[apex11]

You might want to check up on that, from what I've read its all electric or hybrid. Diesels are dead anyway so if you look at Volvo its not hard to see the all electric and hybrid thing....

"
All new cars launched by Volvo from 2019 onwards will be partially or completely battery-powered, in what the company called a “historic end” to building models that only have an internal combustion engine.

Between 2019 and 2021, the firm will introduce five 100% electric models, and ensure the rest of its conventional petrol and diesel range has a hybrid engine of some form. It is the first major manufacturer to make such a bold move."

 

[Akra]

GT3/GT4/TCR cars are not sold "off the back of road cars". Nobody buys a TCR car because they're passionate about Hyundai i20s. These cars are sold on the basis of enabling teams, specifically those with driver funding, to go racing at a decent level, with logistical and technical support. The car is only one part of the package.

I never said anything about factory teams and the merger and any of that, so no idea where the "simply a bit mad" comment comes from.

My comment is simply in regards to what TCR is - it's the Touring Car version of GT3 and GT4. Relatively cheap, easy to run cars, sold as part of a racing support package, enabling customers to go racing. It all spawned from the original Porsche customer support racing packages. It isn't based on what road cars people want, it's based on what customer racing clients want. The cars will take whatever direction sells the most, not what road car technology is doing. If it followed road car tech then we'd have already seen hybrid GT cars and diesel Audis, but we haven't.

So I'm not really fussed what WTCRCRT is up to, just pointing out that customer racing requires demand to actually work and so far it's been clear where the demand is. If you think that the entire TCR class is going to become electric within 2 years, you're living in a fantasy world.

"By 2019 Volvo will only sell electric cars"

This statement is incorrect. They will sell not sell petrol only vehicles. That's not the same as "electric cars".

 

[apex11]

 

[apex11]

GT3/GT4/TCR cars are not sold "off the back of road cars". Nobody buys a TCR car because they're passionate about Hyundai i20s. These cars are sold on the basis of enabling teams, specifically those with driver funding, to go racing at a decent level, with logistical and technical support. The car is only one part of the package.

I never said anything about factory teams and the merger and any of that, so no idea where the "simply a bit mad" comment comes from.

My comment is simply in regards to what TCR is - it's the Touring Car version of GT3 and GT4. Relatively cheap, easy to run cars, sold as part of a racing support package, enabling customers to go racing. It all spawned from the original Porsche customer support racing packages. It isn't based on what road cars people want, it's based on what customer racing clients want. The cars will take whatever direction sells the most, not what road car technology is doing. If it followed road car tech then we'd have already seen hybrid GT cars and diesel Audis, but we haven't.

So I'm not really fussed what WTCRCRT is up to, just pointing out that customer racing requires demand to actually work and so far it's been clear where the demand is. If you think that the entire TCR class is going to become electric within 2 years, you're living in a fantasy world.

You are just being deliberately stupid now..... i'm talking in 2 3 years time maybe even 5 years...jesus christ man...
Go find out stuff on the internet and see why TCR are merging....its to move towards factory involvement, a few teams already have it like Hyundi...unbelievable.

Please explain why, if in 3 years time car makers are selling electric and hybrid cars would they want to spend millions on petrol racing cars??
Small series may still do, but the fact TCR want to merge with the FIA WTCC (key bit is FIA) is to get away from the small series thing....they have eaten WTCC so they haven't done that to stay some small privateer series with pretty much production cars, compared to the TC1 WTCC metal...

Anyway i can see i'm wasting my time with you....try touring car times as a great start point...or having family who work for a TCR team.....

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

whatever, the wtcc put fwd and rwd on one grid quite successfully in its best days, so maybe they will try putting electric and hybrid and "normal" on one grid, wouldn't put it past them

on a more serious note: the 26 cap might make sense in a thousand ways, but for fans, i suppose a 32 cap would have been better. Actually, any cap sooner or later leads to smaller grids, or so it seems. remember the days of uncapped formula one? we had pre-qualifying before the weekend even started, unbelievable today.

on a sidenote: with dtm dying in 2019, how about them merging in as well (sorry, getting a bit carried away ...)

 

[apex11]

whatever, the wtcc put fwd and rwd on one grid quite successfully in its best days, so maybe they will try putting electric and hybrid and "normal" on one grid, wouldn't put it past them

on a more serious note: the 26 cap might make sense in a thousand ways, but for fans, i suppose a 32 cap would have been better. Actually, any cap sooner or later leads to smaller grids, or so it seems. remember the days of uncapped formula one? we had pre-qualifying before the weekend even started, unbelievable today.

on a sidenote: with dtm dying in 2019, how about them merging in as well (sorry, getting a bit carried away ...)

DTM and WTCC was suggested... no longer though...
26 car cap is because they don't want everyone to bugger off to WTCR......yet..

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

I don't think it will be electric just like Formula 1 won't be fully electric either. Much better to have a separate e-tcc at some point for the electric fans.

If WTCR goes electric in the future it will be the moment I'll stop watching it again and go watch Youtube videos featuring petrol powered engines from the past.

Here are three examples why the flagship of touring cars will not be fully electric. Because Sounds

And here the same cars with electric engines
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhqnIWyNV6c

Tell me for which series you are going to pay 30 euro to see them race.

 

[apex11]

Le Mans will now have to have a percentage of laps under pure electric power.... if a company is making only hybrid or full elec cars do you not think they might want to start to make electric look a bit cooler?
Look i'm not a fan of elec, but its happening and it wasn't my idea so will people stop shitting on me...? cheers.
Its daft to assume car makers will keep supporting petrol racing cars.... its already going away from that... pollution to car makers is like cancer to cigarette brands...this is just fact.

 

[apex11]

Lets say, in 10 years no petrol cars will be made, imagine if you will. All hybrid or electric.
Does anyone really think in 10 years factory teams will be racing petrol cars across the globe??
Honest question.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

pollution to car makers is like cancer to cigarette brands...this is just fact.

Fact is that F1 cars hardly pollutes the environment. It's the crappy Boeing from DHL flying around the globe 22 times a year consuming a gazillion liters of fuel transportinig teams and gear. And all the fans travelling by planes and cars to the circuits.

I guess those super green and clean Formula E cars are flown around the world by electric planes? No of course not. It's the same transport Boeing from DHL again polluting the sky twice.

Electric is marketing and has nothing to do with being green. It would be greener if they took all the electricity from solar power but as long as fossil fuels or biomassa are burned to create electricity it's all pure bs to me.

Elon Musk, the savior of the planet, with Tesla runs a space-program for rich people who want to burn 2 gazillion liters of fuel to travel to space and back. But I never hear that argument being raised when it's comes to the new Steve Jobs of the environment, it's always about electricity.

Airplanes, Industry, Vulcano's. That's your top polluters of which one is a natural phenomenon.

Let's enjoy petrol powered WTCR now it's here

 

[Akra]

Like the Volvo statement, the Le Mans electric lap is also incorrect. That was a proposal for 2020, not “now” and it is not a rule, was simply a proposal. The next generation of rules has not been clarified, especially with the loss of all but 1 hybrid team.

 

[shimon.ifraimov]

wow great news!

 

[apex11]

Like the Volvo statement, the Le Mans electric lap is also incorrect. That was a proposal for 2020, not “now” and it is not a rule, was simply a proposal. The next generation of rules has not been clarified, especially with the loss of all but 1 hybrid team.

So you think in 10 years factory teams will still be pumping millions into petrol race cars?

 

[Akra]

Fact is that F1 cars hardly pollutes the environment. It's the crappy Boeing from DHL flying around the globe 22 times a year consuming a gazillion liters of fuel transportinig teams and gear.

I guess those super green and clean Formula E cars are flown around the world by electric planes? No of course not. It's the same transport Boeing from DHL polluting the sky twice.

Electric is marketing and has nothing to do with being green. It would be greener if they took all the electricity from solar power but as long as fossil fuels or biomassa are burned to creat electricity it's all pure bs.

Elon Musk, the savior of the planet, with Tesla runs a space-program for rich people who want to burn 2 gazillion liters of fuel to travel to space and back. But I never hear that argument being raised when it's comes to the new Steve Jobs.

Airplanes, Industry, Vulcano's. That's your top polluters of which one is a natural phenomenon.

Whilst I get your point, there’s some incorrect stuff in here. Yes planes (ships are actually the worst) are bigger polluters that cars, but how many ships are hanging out in the middle of London causing problems? Whilst there are things that are worse than cars, that doesn’t make cars not a problem.

However Tesla is more about a sustainable energy solution for vehicles. The idea that we will, for fact, run out of fossil fuels in our life time and therefore we do need an alternative and we should get it sooner rather than later.

Also note that the SpaceX Falcon 9 is by far (by several orders of magnitude) more efficient than any rocket in the history of...ever. Not only in terms of fuel useage (partially because of the super cooled LOX), But because they are the first ever to get an meaningful re-use it means significantly less manufacturing time.

Also, not trying to be a dick here, but it’s unfair to have a go at somebody who is actually trying to better humanity. Even if you don’t like Tesla, humanity was going backwards when it came to space travel. We literally went from moon landings to low earth orbit only. Apart from a couple of impressive mars landers, there’s been zero movement on space travel. The industry was too fat and happy. And if we want to survive the next mass extinction (which science says will happen), then we need to be on more than one planet. So I’ll happily anyone who wants to venture out of the cave and see what’s beyond the hills.

Electric racing cars are dull. But electric road cars make sense and require only basic infrastructure changes. Plugin hybrids make even more sense and fill the gaps that electric cars cannot service. And we can support more than one fuel type - we currently do with petrol and diesel.