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FFB with a T300

Discussion in 'Automobilista' started by monsieurjackb, Feb 17, 2017.

  1. monsieurjackb

    monsieurjackb
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    Hey everyone, I've recently upgraded from a Fanatec CSR to a Thrustmaster T300 and I really do mean upgraded. I mean in every other game the FFB is on another level but for some reason I can't get it dialled in on AMS. It's a shame because SCE then AMS had by far the greatest FFB of any sim with my CSR and it has always been my favourite. Does anyone have any tricks to getting the T300 set up on AMS? Because at the moment it all feels a bit dull, I can't even feel the curbs anymore :(

    I know I've been pretty vague, I just wondered if this was something most TM users experienced.

    Thanks!
     
  2. PicoBp

    PicoBp
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    You can't go wrong with using the default TM Control Panel settings and in-game +100% FFB, 360Hz Pure, 10% Low Force Boost. ;)
     
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  3. monsieurjackb

    monsieurjackb
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    Thanks, I'll give it a go. I have messed around with the settings in the control panel because I'm not a fan of spring and damper but I'll try setting them to default again. Also I've never touched the low force boost because I never needed to which is in all likelihood where I've been going wrong :roflmao:
     
  4. AadHofman

    AadHofman

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    Your wheel is clipping. Unfortunately the default realfeel-settings do just that, so you need to edit them; approx. 20% higher numerical values to maxforcesteer or whatever heck it is called.
     
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  5. monsieurjackb

    monsieurjackb
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    Yeah see I thought that might be the case but the wheel is capable of being detailed and stronger than it is in AMS so I dismissed it. I'm glad you brought up the point of RealFeel though, I didn't think of that and I've just had a look at the file and it seems as though it's corrupted somehow, is there anyway to restart it or redownload it?
     
  6. AadHofman

    AadHofman

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    Delete and check the files with Steam, I'd think. You have to edit the Maxsteerforce-thingy for each vehicle after that.
     
  7. PicoBp

    PicoBp
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    No need to adjust realfeel.ini, your symptom is not related to clipping. Your TM control panel can be the issue. BTW, spring and damper are dynamic forces with a TM wheel, not constantly applied values. It depends on the game if it makes use of them. For example, Dirt Rally FFB relies highly on those to produce tyre forces.
     
  8. AadHofman

    AadHofman

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    It is, at my end. Values raised, clipping gone, more feedback info.
     
  9. PicoBp

    PicoBp
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    The default Reiza values are set for approximately 20% top-end clipping, intentionally. That portion of the FFB range is used for a negligible amount of time compared to the rest of the dynamic range. So you might lack detail in the 130R, or other high speed turns where tyre load is close to or slightly over the MaxForce value. But that doesn't affect low/mid forces, like kerbs, even the opposite, makes them stronger. The lower the MaxForce, the stronger low/mid forces become, at the cost of top end compression. Most of the time you feel low/mid, so it's a rational sacrifice to make our toy wheels with laughable torque output feel at least somewhat up to the task.

    Going for 0% clipping starts to be a valid option only with direct drive wheels, where you have the torque necessary to put out at least 1:2, or even 1:1 forces. The F-Extreme 1:1 value is near 20Nm for high-speed corners, didn't even dare to check F-Trucks, but that should be over 25+Nm. A TX has a max output of around 4Nm in ideal conditions...
     
  10. TinoM

    TinoM
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    Hey AadHofman, if you don't mind, what exactly did you change? I'm having some issue with AMS and T300. Thanks.
     
  11. AadHofman

    AadHofman

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    I'll check when I get home, but basically it is 15-20% higher numerical values for the whatchamacallits and, IIRC 10% of low force booster (can't remember its name either, lol). Better FFB for sure, despite the lectures of PicoBp. ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  12. AadHofman

    AadHofman

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    Oh, now that I remember it, for Formula retro* I even added canned effects, because I had better feel with them, even winning a beta test race at old Imola.

    * actually it was Vintage 69
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  13. TinoM

    TinoM
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    Cheers...thanks man!
     
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  14. AadHofman

    AadHofman

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    One more thing. Put the spring and damper gain to 0% in the wheel profiler. They do nothing but kill the details.
     
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  15. AadHofman

    AadHofman

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    What's so funny PicoBp?
     
  16. TinoM

    TinoM
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    Thanks man....got the wheel somewhat sorted. Now i need to figure out the online disconnects. :mad:
     
  17. PicoBp

    PicoBp
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    Seeing the good old misconceptions from the days of G25s. You're talking about better force feedback and suggest to kill half of the details. Are you even aware how Spring and Damper works with TM wheels?
     
  18. AadHofman

    AadHofman

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    WTF is your problem? I'm trying to help a fellow simracer here, and you come up with this bullsh*t. I know how the FFB in AMS works, being in the beta team and all, thank you very much. You can test the FFB with spring and damper on and off, and feel the difference. Drop the horse manure, please.
     
  19. PicoBp

    PicoBp
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    You are misleading a fellow member, not actually helping him. I would also mention your reaction to an actual, educated answer given on this topic earlier ('...despite the lectures...'). Adding canned effects to make FFB more realistic is a paradox again; you're replacing actual physics forces with predefined rumble shenaningans.

    If you know how FFB in AMS works, you are also aware that AMS _does not_ use driver level damper and spring settings if set to Pure FFB in-game, therefore it makes no difference what you set it at. Instead you're telling someone to _downgrade_ his experience on the long term, compared to what his wheel is capable of.

    Besides that, you're probably also aware that TM damper and spring effects are not static like with the Logitech wheels, but indeed dynamic, based on wheel sensor data and physics. It depends on the game's engine if it makes use of this, or completely ignores the option. 80% of the sims either don't even use those values, so you won't feel a difference. The remaining 20% builds their physics and feedback foundation on utilizing them to represent the core FFB, like Dirt Rally I mentioned before. Try that sim with spring and damper on 0%, then put them back on 100% and test again. It will bring the FFB to a whole another level.

    I'm happy to have a proper argument of the topic on an engineering and software development level. But until you show a reasonable attitude towards the facts, don't be upset about my response.
     
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  20. AadHofman

    AadHofman

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    I'm not misleading anybody. My arguments are based on reality, not theoretical thoughts. I have not claimed that adding canned effects makes anything more realistic, just that it helped the feel with the Vintage. With some cars it helps, with some it doesn't. I know it is hard for some purists to understand.

    And you were claiming that turning them off killed half the details, eh? Again you can test yourself with damper and spring on and off, and feel the difference. Obviously they do matter.

    Funnily enough, some cars in Dirt Rally feel better with spring and damper off, like Opel Kadett, and some are worse, like WRC Fiesta. So it all depends, and what you are looking for in FFB. One thing I'm certain about though. Spring and damper kill most of the details in AMS. Test it yourself.