Ferrari and Alonso will bounce back in 2013?

[Shivayernena]

Well you all know and saw hw Nando jst lost the champnshp by small gap. He lost the most deserving tittle of his carreer. After brazil race we all saw hw sad he was. He mainly lost the chmpnshp due to lack of compitetive car like RBR r Mclaren at last stages. This loss may gave nando vry hard feelins but he nad ferrari will surely bounce back surely in 2013............. What do u say ?

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Looks like you are missing a couple of buttons on your keyboard lol

 

[Jax Humanhater]

Please finish spelling your words. I don't mean to sound rude.

Well, there will be an overhaul of regulations for '13, so, we may see Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, and perhaps, Mercedes stay on top the regulations.

 

[Ivan Mills]

LoL

 

[Shane Butler]

Well you all know and saw hw Nando jst lost the champnshp by small gap. He lost the most deserving tittle of his carreer. After brazil race we all saw hw sad he was. He mainly lost the chmpnshp due to lack of compitetive car like RBR r Mclaren at last stages. This loss may gave nando vry hard feelins but he nad ferrari will surely bounce back surely in 2013............. What do u say ?

View attachment 35381

Grammar, grammar grammar!!

 

[Maciej Dolinski]

Well Ferrari lost development race this season to Red Bull and Mclaren so I'm not very optimistic. For sure they started from back foot but still as season progressed amount of new parts that didn't work on track started to become alarming. I would say there is big chance that evolution of current car can be much better to work with. But as things stand now Mclaren is fastest so they have best building block.
Also i wouldn't say Alonso lost championship... Ferrari did. As always when sport introduces cooperation between man and machine even driver perfection can't hide all car flaws.

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

Shivayernena This is a global forum so usage of Text message format cause problems for other people. So Please use the Full form of English wording.

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

On Topic it was not about Having the Best car at the Start of Season it was about Maintaining for entire season. Lack of updates hurt Ferrari chances this year. They closed their Wind tunnel for Repairs If it was working as it should then they CAN.

 

[Johnny Russian]

Well you all know and saw hw Nando jst lost the champnshp by small gap. He lost the most deserving tittle of his carreer. After brazil race we all saw hw sad he was. He mainly lost the chmpnshp due to lack of compitetive car like RBR r Mclaren at last stages. This loss may gave nando vry hard feelins but he nad ferrari will surely bounce back surely in 2013............. What do u say ?

That spelling:

 

[Matthew Schofield]

Alonso and Ferrari 'can' win it next year, but I sadly think it's stacked heavily against them.

Ferrari capitalised with consistency and some great driving from Fernando when Red Bull and Mclaren were faultering and having reliability issues. Ferrari will unlikely be afforded that luxury again next year.

Fernando himself has said that he'll find it difficult to perform to that level ever again in his career. Not impossible, but unlikely. He produced the fewest mistakes of anyone, and those he did make arguably didn't cost him anything.

And finally the car. Ferrari rolled the dice with the F2012, and it's most innovative concept didn't work. Worse still, the wind tunnel was putting out bad data that really hindered development. At the end of the season, Red Bull and Mclaren were well in to their stride, finishing the year 8 tenths ahead. Ferrari now have just 2 months to close that gap by evolving the F2012, using a wind tunnel in a different country. And then they've got to develop that evolution through the whole of 2013. Red Bull and Mclaren certainly won't be sleeping this winter. Perhaps Ferrari's best opportunity might come in getting a handle on the new tyres before anyone else.

Yeah, I thnk Ferrari 'can' win it, but as a betting man, I won't be putting my house on it.

 

[Markus Neumann]

Alonso and Ferrari 'can' win it next year, but I sadly think it's stacked heavily against them.

Ferrari capitalised with consistency and some great driving from Fernando when Red Bull and Mclaren were faultering and having reliability issues. Ferrari will unlikely be afforded that luxury again next year.

Fernando himself has said that he'll find it difficult to perform to that level ever again in his career. Not impossible, but unlikely. He produced the fewest mistakes of anyone, and those he did make arguably didn't cost him anything.

And finally the car. Ferrari rolled the dice with the F2012, and it's most innovative concept didn't work. Worse still, the wind tunnel was putting out bad data that really hindered development. At the end of the season, Red Bull and Mclaren were well in to their stride, finishing the year 8 tenths ahead. Ferrari now have just 2 months to close that gap by evolving the F2012, using a wind tunnel in a different country. And then they've got to develop that evolution through the whole of 2013. Red Bull and Mclaren certainly won't be sleeping this winter. Perhaps Ferrari's best opportunity might come in getting a handle on the new tyres before anyone else.

Yeah, I thnk Ferrari 'can' win it, but as a betting man, I won't be putting my house on it.

Ferrari certainly didn't make no mistakes:

• The wrong strategy cost Alonso the victory in Catalunya.
• The wrong strategy cost Alonso a podium in Canada.
• The wrong strategy cost Alonso the victory in Great Britain.
• A problem with the rear Anti-roll-bar (if i recall it correctly ) cost Alonso pole and therefore victory or at least P2 in Monza.
• Crashing out at the start of the Japanese Grand Prix was definitely more Alonso's fault than Kimi's. Massa's P2 proves Alonso missed out on 18 points.
• If Ferrari hadn't given Alonso "updates" which actually made the car slower (Massa, without the updates, was faster) in Korea, he might have managed P2 instead of P3.

Additionally, the F2012 probably has more potential to unlock than the RB8. Adrian Newey said himself that it will be more difficult to build a better car for 2013 because nothing has changed. Ferrari on the other hand can still get a lot more out of the car and once they've got their Windtunnel up and running again, they might even manage to do that

 

[Hampus Andersson]

I think Newey will do it again, only this time it will work out the box.
Vettel will get his fourth title and Ferrari will play catch up again, Mclaren won´t be as strong as they were with Hamilton.

 

[Markus Neumann]

I think Newey will do it again, only this time it will work out the box.
Vettel will get his fourth title and Ferrari will play catch up again, Mclaren won´t be as strong as they were with Hamilton.

I agree with the out the box part, but not with "Newey will do it again", for the same reason: the lack of rule changes for next year means that unless RB comes up with something new like the F-Duct, blown diffuser or double DRS (and it works, which, as indicated by the latter, is not guaranteed). Additionally, the wider operating window of the 2013 tyres means there is less chance for surprises. Consequently, it is likely RB will understand their car from the beginning, but it probably won't be leagues ahead of the other teams. The stricter rules for flexible bodywork, which RB probably exploited the most of all teams, should hurt them as well.

As far as McLaren is concerned: they have proven this year that they can build a faster car than Newey. Button's mid-season slump this year was because he wasn't able to get the tyres into their operating window for a couple of races. The wider operating window of the 2013 tyres as well as the fact that he will likely direct McLaren's development of the car means that this most likely won't happen again. Plus, he's shown that if his car is perfect, he's a better driver than Hamilton.

I wouldn't even write Hamilton off completely. Mercedes has a big budget and the double diffuser + the double DRS prove that they are creative, which might give them an edge if they can come up with something for next year, given that the lack of rules will mean all the teams will likely build similar cars. They hired a lot of big names in 2011 who will finally be able to build the car completely (and not start working when it's already halfway finished) this time. Plus, the wider operating window of the tyres will help them more than any other team. I'd say Hamilton's chances of winning next year's WDC are about as big as Alonso's for this year (which, admittedly, were not exactly great, but he still almost managed it).

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

So a DEV-ICE like Lotus one will help teams Very much. We don't knew what Redbull do until their car hit the track in Barcelona due to delay with the Development of RB9. But i think 2013 could be like 2010 rather than 2012. Where All Big teams was in Shout.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

I agree with the out the box part, but not with "Newey will do it again", for the same reason: the lack of rule changes for next year means that unless RB comes up with something new like the F-Duct, blown diffuser or double DRS (and it works, which, as indicated by the latter, is not guaranteed). Additionally, the wider operating window of the 2013 tyres means there is less chance for surprises. Consequently, it is likely RB will understand their car from the beginning, but it probably won't be leagues ahead of the other teams. The stricter rules for flexible bodywork, which RB probably exploited the most of all teams, should hurt them as well.

Same rules is what keeps Newey ahead of the game.
Since 2009 the rules have pretty much been the same and he´s dominated every year.
Throughout his history it has been rule changes that has destroyed his dynasties.

Sure the tires have a wider operating window but you have higher thermal degradation.

I´d say that in 2012 Mclaren was the real innovator in wing flex with their wing tipping backwards. Soon after Red Bull did the same whereas before they lowered the whole wing flat.

Will be interesting to see, i don´t think anyone is going to beat Newey next year because it´s the same regulations pretty much.
Newey was hurt at the beginning of the season and Mclaren and Ferrari could not do it then, they could not do it in 2009, 2010, 2011 or 2012.
Frankly the only reason Red Bull don´t have 8 titles is because of Brawn finding a loophole.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

So a DEV-ICE like Lotus one will help teams Very much. We don't knew what Redbull do until their car hit the track in Barcelona due to delay with the Development of RB9. But i think 2013 could be like 2010 rather than 2012. Where All Big teams was in Shout.

The RB6 was utterly dominant, it had more front row lockouts then the RB7.
Only reason other teams were even remotely close was because of the reliability issues on the RB6.

 

[Matthew Schofield]

Ferrari certainly didn't make no mistakes:

• The wrong strategy cost Alonso the victory in Catalunya.
• The wrong strategy cost Alonso a podium in Canada.
• The wrong strategy cost Alonso the victory in Great Britain.
• A problem with the rear Anti-roll-bar (if i recall it correctly ) cost Alonso pole and therefore victory or at least P2 in Monza.
• Crashing out at the start of the Japanese Grand Prix was definitely more Alonso's fault than Kimi's. Massa's P2 proves Alonso missed out on 18 points.
• If Ferrari hadn't given Alonso "updates" which actually made the car slower (Massa, without the updates, was faster) in Korea, he might have managed P2 instead of P3.

Additionally, the F2012 probably has more potential to unlock than the RB8. Adrian Newey said himself that it will be more difficult to build a better car for 2013 because nothing has changed. Ferrari on the other hand can still get a lot more out of the car and once they've got their Windtunnel up and running again, they might even manage to do that

I didn't say 'Ferrari didn't make mistakes'. I said Fernando didn't make many.

And there are no guarantees that there are large improvements/potential to unlock from the Ferrari. There will be some, but that's not to say that the chassis will ever provide the foundations on which they can equal the pace of Red Bull or Mclaren. We can hope, but it's certainly not written that all cars can be equal.

Regarding the wind tunnel, I believe Ferrari have said that it will be offline for potentially the next 2 years. It's having a whole new system, not just fixes. In the meantime they'll be using Toyota's windtunnel in Cologne.

I'm a Ferrari fan to the core, always have been, but being realistic, next year is a very big ask. Not impossible, but like I said, I couldn't bet my house on it.

Regarding Adrian Newey, in my opinion it's during years of regulation change that he actually excells. It's once there's been a period of stability and other engineers look in different directions that Adrians cars become beatable again. That's exactly what Rory Byrne did at Ferrari. I expect 2014 to be Newey and Ross Brawn dominated.

 

[Markus Neumann]

Regarding the wind tunnel, I believe Ferrari have said that it will be offline for potentially the next 2 years. It's having a whole new system, not just fixes. In the meantime they'll be using Toyota's windtunnel in Cologne.

It's only for a few months:

"Domenicali has reached a conclusion: to shut down our windtunnel for a while and do our tests elsewhere, in order to verify and re-calibrate everything. It will take time.
"I don't know whether this will happen in December or January, it's up to him: I have absolute faith in Domenicali."

Source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102996

Ferrari has decided to shut down its windtunnel during the winter in order to improve its technology but Alonso does not expect that to hinder the team based on how it improved its car during 2012.
"The Ferrari windtunnel is closed because they have to make some major modifications and we won't be able to use it for a few months," he said.

Source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104809

About Newey: Personally, I think regulation changes help him: The McLaren of the mid 90s was a crap car, but with the 1998 regulation changes, they overhauled Williams and caught Ferrari on the back foot as well. For the first few races, until Ferrari adapted, they were completely dominant.
It would have been the same in 2009 if not for Brawn, the RB5 was such a good car it could compete with them even though it didn't have a double diffuser. Also, the years before that, with few regulation changes, the RB was crap (even got beaten by TR in 2008).

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

The RB6 was utterly dominant, it had more front row lockouts then the RB7.
Only reason other teams were even remotely close was because of the reliability issues on the RB6.

Yes and i remember Martin calling it as a Monster in Track in Australia Post - Qualifying when Sebastian Set a Stellar Lap for P1.
But the Point here is how newey makes his cars to get the front row with the new DRS rule in place.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

the RB5 was such a good car it could compete with them even though it didn't have a double diffuser. Also, the years before that, with few regulation changes, the RB was crap (even got beaten by TR in 2008).

But you see, the RB5 did have a double diffuser.
When it did not in the beginning of the year it was beaten or dominated by the Brawn GP cars,
It was after the put the DD on it that it really started becoming competitive that year.

Regarding the years before that, it takes time to build a team, even Newey said that 2009 everything came together, they had everything in place that year to strike big, not just car design but the right people, the right resources, calibrated wind tunnel etc etc etc. It´s in Racecar Engineering Jan edition if you want to read it yourself.