Ferrari 458

CCX · Nov 13, 2013

I don't know why, but I'm struggling to get the 458 sideways and hold it in a stable slide. I've tried different approaches but I always find the car either regains grip too quickly or just wants to spin round. This might partly be due to it being mid-engined, as I can hold the E92 M3 sideways all day long.

I just wondered if anyone can recommend some slight setup tweaks or a change in technique that would make the car more stable when in a slide - I can only hotlap for so long before my curiosity gets the better of me and I want to powerslide.

It does seem quite unpredictable at times (all aids off, with the exception of ABS and auto-clutch, as it's a paddle-shift car), which seems at odds with what I've seen and read about how it drives in real life. Is it just me, or does anyone else think the same?

Other than that though, I'm loving AC so far. By far the best sim I've ever tried.

Michael Hornbuckle · Nov 15, 2013

Shame you are having so much trouble getting it set up...took me less than 5 minutes and it drives like a dream, looks pretty damn sweet graphically, and runs smooth as silk.

Paul Lock · Nov 15, 2013

Mr Whippy said:
Now I realise that would be a huge task to completely simulate....

Dave

Haaaaang on a sec. The way you have been talking, I think we are all expecting a 458 mod from you pretty soon?? You know, the one which corrects the half-assed TC system which Kunos have failed to implement?
Better get busy Dave!

In other news - has anyone else seen how amazing the 458 looks when you spend some time on the photo app moving the light source around and stuff? The way the reflections and sun rays dance off the beautiful model Kunos made really should come with some sort of health warning. Cant wait for the 4/5.

Mr Whippy · Nov 17, 2013

Paul Lock said:
Haaaaang on a sec. The way you have been talking, I think we are all expecting a 458 mod from you pretty soon?? You know, the one which corrects the half-assed TC system which Kunos have failed to implement?
Better get busy Dave!

Hehe, I'll happily write an F458 mod physics file if you'd like.

For the very start I'd increase the frequency operation rate of the TC so it feels seamless at least, rather than so juddery.
I could do this quite easily right now but it seems the game set up is set to read car contents from the data.acd file over loose files in the car directory.

Until the modding tools arrive I can't really do too much to help I'm afraid.

Been digging more.

The e-diff seems to be approximated with an EDL system, looks to be braking slipping wheels rather than shifting torque around.

The car currently uses a fixed limited slip diff with different rates for power/coast. Ideally you might tune these for the different Manettino modes. Or even use the EDL type braking controls to fudge a feel like the e-diff in different modes?!

The TCS appears to be using a variable slip ratio level per setting, but no change on frequency rate or anything else sadly.

In the end I guess the point is, how simmy do you want your AC road cars to be?

To feel about right, or go as far as possible to feel correct in every way you can check.

For example, in all the replays of this car I think it's too stiff looking. Not much pitch/roll vs videos and photos of the same states.
Just a quick look at the rear wheel rate is at 70kn/m... that seems very high for this car, over 2hz ride rate.

I'm not sure on the other values. Wheel rates of 40kn/m front, 70kn/m rear, and 37k/6k front/rear arb. Hmmmm.

I'm more than happy to play around and hot lap with this car. It's nice, looks great, sounds great, feels great.
But is it really simulating an F458?

I'm not sure yet but if this is as close as the AC engine can get for an F458, it's gonna be even further away for an MP4 12C with it's super-integrated gearbox/suspension/traction/stability/aero control systems!

Dave

CCX · Nov 17, 2013

Personally I don't care about whether TC or associated systems (with the exception of ABS) are simulated at all, I just switch them off anyway. I think the simulation of TC in its current state is more than good enough for those who will use it - generally those new to simracing without much experience. You're right that they may not work exactly how the real Mannetino works, but we have 4 separate settings which should be enough to satisfy most players. Let's face it - 99% of players on here will switch the systems off anyway, and Kunos knows that.

Mr Whippy · Nov 17, 2013

I agree. But having four systems is silly if none of them does what the real ones do.

It may as well just have one generic driving aid TC that is there purely for that reason.

But having now seen some of the internal values of the car I do wonder if it's also a bit too stiff.

Dave

Stelios · Nov 17, 2013

You wonder, it was their job for the last 4 years, and you wonder?

Paul Lock · Nov 17, 2013

CCX said:
Personally I don't care about whether TC or associated systems (with the exception of ABS) are simulated at all, I just switch them off anyway. I think the simulation of TC in its current state is more than good enough for those who will use it - generally those new to simracing without much experience. You're right that they may not work exactly how the real Mannetino works, but we have 4 separate settings which should be enough to satisfy most players. Let's face it - 99% of players on here will switch the systems off anyway, and Kunos knows that.

You should give it a try, its not been implemented like a get out of jail free card.
I usually turn all TC off as matter of course, but experimenting with these settings on the 458 is pretty entertaining

Mr Whippy · Nov 17, 2013

Stelios Fevgatos said:
You wonder, it was their job for the last 4 years, and you wonder?

I wonder because I can't be sure without all the data readouts. Ie, how heavy is an AC driver.

Right now a car with driver ready to go, but no fuel, comes out in the region of a ride rate (including tyre) of about 1.82hz at the back which is maybe more correct than I thought. Adding the driver will reduce that further.

But I'm far from an expert on all this stuff. Perhaps it is all correct. I know for sure there are more analytical people than me out there so I'm sure they'll appreciate having the data to look at now so we can judge fairly.

And surely there is nothing wrong with questioning all this stuff?

It's better than just being blinded by the idea that everything is perfect despite it not being the case.

We'll only make AC great by saying what we do and don't like.

If KS are gonna include high end road cars in AC then they need to implement systems that road cars like these use.

Dave

CCX · Nov 17, 2013

Paul Lock said:
You should give it a try, its not been implemented like a get out of jail free card.
I usually turn all TC off as matter of course, but experimenting with these settings on the 458 is pretty entertaining

Yeah I have definitely given it a go, but prefer driving it without. I'll test it again sometime though.

Kevin Ascher · Nov 21, 2013

I flicked on the Electronics app as I was surprised that my view on the TCS system was so different from everybody else's and guess what I found out?
On my end, the TCS does nothing at all, no matter in which of the 4 modes I have it in.
Any clues what I might be doing wrong?

CCX · Nov 21, 2013

Kevin Ascher said:
I flicked on the Electronics app as I was surprised that my view on the TCS system was so different from everybody else's and guess what I found out?
On my end, the TCS does nothing at all, no matter in which of the 4 modes I have it in.
Any clues what I might be doing wrong?

I have experienced this before, I think there may be a bug with the TC at the moment.

Jan-Olov Johansson · Nov 21, 2013

I have to agree, can't feel any difference whatsoever no matter which TC mode I use.

Don't use TC othervise so it's no big deal but I wanted to see if it made drifting easier...find that part a bit...well, difficult in the Ferrari

CCX · Nov 22, 2013

Jan-Olov Johansson said:
Don't use TC othervise so it's no big deal but I wanted to see if it made drifting easier...find that part a bit...well, difficult in the Ferrari

Yeah I've found holding the 458 in a stable slide very difficult, I still need a lot more practice. I think the crucial thing with the 458 is to be ultra smooth with the steering and throttle. It's so easy to just spin round on corner entry, so it helps to use the power to initiate a slide rather than the feint/Scandinavian flick as in the lesser powered cars. Once the back end starts to slip, you have to be very delicate with the throttle as you don't need much power to hold the drift, but too little and it'll throw you off towards the barriers.

I think this is the biggest challenge in AC.