Ferrari 458

[CCX]

I don't know why, but I'm struggling to get the 458 sideways and hold it in a stable slide. I've tried different approaches but I always find the car either regains grip too quickly or just wants to spin round. This might partly be due to it being mid-engined, as I can hold the E92 M3 sideways all day long.

I just wondered if anyone can recommend some slight setup tweaks or a change in technique that would make the car more stable when in a slide - I can only hotlap for so long before my curiosity gets the better of me and I want to powerslide.

It does seem quite unpredictable at times (all aids off, with the exception of ABS and auto-clutch, as it's a paddle-shift car), which seems at odds with what I've seen and read about how it drives in real life. Is it just me, or does anyone else think the same?

Other than that though, I'm loving AC so far. By far the best sim I've ever tried.

 

[Stuart Whitehead]

You say you have all aids off, but the car does have TC in real life and it's also on when you go on track in the sim. You can cycle through the 4 levels of TC and turn it off completely using CTR+T whilst in car.

 

[Mr Whippy]

4 levels of TC?

Is this a sim or an arcade game?

Surely the simulated cars should have TC/ESP systems appropriate to the specific car only, not a global 4-choice system!?


Hmmm

Dave

 

[Stelios]

It is an arcade game, haven't you noticed?

 

[Stuart Whitehead]

4 levels of TC?

Is this a sim or an arcade game?

Surely the simulated cars should have TC/ESP systems appropriate to the specific car only, not a global 4-choice system!?

Where did i say it was a global system? The AC 458 has exactly the same TC settings as the real thing.

All the cars in the sim have the appropriate aids that their real life counterparts have.

 

[CCX]

You say you have all aids off, but the car does have TC in real life and it's also on when you go on track in the sim. You can cycle through the 4 levels of TC and turn it off completely using CTR+T whilst in car.

Thank you, I think that may have been the problem. If the TC wasn't completely off, it would obviously cut power mid-slide making it difficult to straighten up after the drift.

I didn't realise it would be on even when switched off in the menu.

 

[Stuart Whitehead]

.I didn't realise it would be on even when switched off in the menu.

Yup, it doesnt matter what aids you have turned off in the menu, the cars that have TC and ABS systems in real life will still have those turned on by default out on track. (ABS is CTR+A by the way. That is also on in the 458)

 

[Paul Lock]

I dont use any aids but realise the cars have their default systems when you first hit the track.
Im just not sure whether to disable ABS if its standard kit. Defo turn off the TC, but am I 'cheating' if I leave the ABS on? What do the purests say?

 

[Aristotelis]

There's a tiny bit of confusion so let me clear this up if I may.
In AC we have ABS and TC as assists in the difficulty summary panel... we're simmers so we don't mind those so let's just go straight to all OFF situation right?

Here's what happens with ABS and TC OFF:
- Cars that have ABS in real life will start with ABS ON in AC.
We thought a lot about letting the possibility to turn it off, and in the end we decided that you can turn it off on all cars with ctrl+A

- Cars that have TC in real life, will start with TC OFF in AC
You can still turn it on with ctrl+T if you like.
We are also simulating each car's specific TC, so for example the 458 gets OFF + 4 levels of TC as in real life (try them it's fun), the Lotus Elise/Exige get's OFF+2, the EXIGE S (not yet available) gets +4, etc etc you get the point

There might be a small bug that when you have enabled TC and then go to pits and then back again on road the TC might not work, we're investigating on this. But if you do it "traditionally" it should work and it is also very evident from level to level, depending the car.

That said. The 458 is a mid engine car. It will get darty and nervous at the limit. It is one of the most well mannered mid engined cars and you can drift it, but you can't really get to the levels of drift of front engine RWD car, like the BMWs.

 

[Aristotelis]

I dont use any aids but realise the cars have their default systems when you first hit the track.
Im just not sure whether to disable ABS if its standard kit. Defo turn off the TC, but am I 'cheating' if I leave the ABS on? What do the purests say?

IMHO ABS should stay ON on cars that have it in real life.

 

[Stuart Whitehead]

- Cars that have TC in real life, will start with TC OFF in AC

Ahh, my bad. Thanks for clearing that up Aris. Not been driving any TC cars today.. i thought it was on by default.

Apologies for the misinformation.

 

[Paul Lock]

IMHO ABS should stay ON on cars that have it in real life.

Thats good enough for me
Thanks.

 

[Paul Lock]

Ahh, my bad. Thanks for clearing that up Aris. Not been driving any TC cars today.. i thought it was on by default.

Apologies for the misinformation.

Ive always cycled through just to make sure its off

 

[Jan-Olov Johansson]

Nice, I have also been debating with myself how to do with ABS in cars that have it, decided tonight to use it and then I saw this thread...

TC I always have off anyway, never used it in any racing game for that matter.

 

[Paul Lock]

You know guys, ive watched more hours of this 458 going round the track than adult entertainment this week.

And I dont mean driving time, nooo not actually playing the game, I mean doing a few laps then sitting, watching this sexy beast on replay through a multitude of angles, then maybe playing with the hdr and lighting settings and taking a cheeky photo or three.
Thanks Kunos, I thought I had run out of vices!

 

[Mr Whippy]

Hehe, it sounds complicated but I suppose it makes sense.

So in the case of the F458, different TCS settings (manettino thingy) also offer different stability system changes and e-diff settings.

So the F458 has different 'settings' but in AC are the settings just arbitrary becoming less controlling the more you turn them up, or are they tuned against the ESP/diff settings as per real life?


In practice we have systems now that are tuned to allow easy drifting, so they won't allow you to slide and get too much traction to fire you out of the slide, or too little traction and have the back end tyres over-slip and the back end come round.

I guess they work heavily on the steer angle, yaw sensor values etc to encourage steady-state sustaining forces etc.



Just curious to know how far AC have gone really. To be fair when appraising the product we need to understand what we should expect to be done to be right and what is just done to "feel" right.

I guess to sum up, it's nice to know what you are getting in a product that advertises itself as supremely accurate.


I guess I'll find out any minute when the game is downloaded, if the physics files are exposed and not encrypted or something...

Thanks

Dave

 

[Aristotelis]

The original car files are encrypted... because licensing.

We don't simulate ESP, just TC. We also take the "shortcut" to understand the slipratio.
The thing is, in real life you can't measure slipratio directly (except lately with some high speed cameras), so you try to measure a ton of other things and from equations understand how much you got and then limit it.
In the virtual world of course, we have the slipratio value ready to go, so we use that and then tell the virtual ECU how much to cut and at what refresh.

It might sound a semplification but actually it is what happens in real life too, so it works.
What happens (in real life and AC) is that if you put it at say level 3 or 4, you could step on the gas, get the rear end out at 10-15 degrees, keep your foot planted and just drive it out

 

[Mr Whippy]

Thank you, I think that may have been the problem. If the TC wasn't completely off, it would obviously cut power mid-slide making it difficult to straighten up after the drift.

I didn't realise it would be on even when switched off in the menu.

Doesn't the manettino switch thingy move around?

Also I know for sure the F458 TC systems are intermixed with stability and e-diff settings. In theory if power is cut then the yaw rate (spin/snap back) behaviour should be controlled to make your life easier

Dave

 

[Aristotelis]

Actually, on real car, the first two levels have ESP enabled
On the 3rd level the ESP will work only at big angles but usually the TC cuts before that. It saves you in turn in and such situations

On the 4th level the ESP will work only at extreme angles again the TC cuts before that. It's quite permissive.

 

[William Levesque]

ESP is the devil anyway, I hate that... Mind you, I prefer having no aids at all, like in my MX-5, but ESP is by far the worst