Ferrari 312T - Was it possible?

[Matej Lakota]

Great driving, amazing lap time, but did anybody in real life ever shift that way, from 4th directly to 1st gear, with H shifter and heel/toe, without engine or gearbox failure? Or in 0.8 that kind of damage for this car hasn˙t been evolved yet?
Thanks.

 

[Stereo]

So far, the only car that I can damage the engine is the BMW 1M step 3. It seems to be a little too sensitive. But I'm sure Kunos will adjust this for all cars soon enough

I've managed to break the E30 Group A when I downshifted too early, I think it doesn't take much over-revving either.

Probably the stages & race cars have a smaller margin between redline and destroyed engine to let experienced drivers get more out of them. but I haven't seen how Kunos tuned them so I don't know.

 

[LazyBug]

If I had known people would be so hung up on me skipping a few gears I would've recorded a lap with normal downshifting.

I shift like that cause I felt like it. It's a game, I play for fun. Also I don't use auto clutch, I even wrote in the description that clutch doesn't show in replays...

Have fun and remember to always thrash it mercilessly!

I have no problem with that skip gear at all, you see i one of that 3 people who 'LIKE" your video, i believe H shifter is there to use for a reason to have an advantage to skip gear for anyone who like to do so.

Also in hotlapping the fastest time is the only matter, i wont even care if actually my car will explode after the 1st lap as long as i get my best time before it explode, it just a game after all

But then i believe what Jonas Celion do wont really hurt the engine cause already slow down enough with a big blip, but of course i might be wrong because i actually know nothing about these thing, just a guess

 

[Chris]

Yeah, i mean, there's nothing wrong with skipping a couple of gears on the downshift, as long as the revs match accordingly, it's pretty safe to do so. And if it's faster over 1 lap, then hey! I'll give it a crack! ahah, but when we start doing enduro stuff with MP, then I'm never skipping a gear ahah.

 

[Jonas Celion]

I have no problem with that skip gear at all, you see i one of that 3 people who 'LIKE" your video, i believe H shifter is there to use for a reason to have an advantage to skip gear for anyone who like to do so.

No worries LazyBug. It's just that I recorded the video because someone wanted help understanding how it was possible to do 55's, but the only discussion seems to be about the fact I shifted from 4th to 1st.

Chris, I don't really think it's faster or slower either way. It's about what feels better for you. For me, slowing down first and then doing a single shift means less stuff that can go wrong and easier to keep the car on the line I want. If you're a heel&toe-ing cyborg from the future like that Porsche driver it probably just helps his rhythm to bang down through the gearbox at ridiculous speed. As you said as long as the revs match it doesn't really matter.

Also note that his rear steps out exactly the same way once he gets down to 1st. That has nothing to do with which gear you shift *from*, it's a result of turning in to sharply at high revs in a low gear. Just like it's easier to spin the wheels on power, the engine braking is also much more severe in 1st. If I had waited another split second it wouldn't have done that, but then I wouldn't have gotten the extra rotation I wanted to get round turn 1 (probably the same reason the Porsche driver slipped it into 1st there).

 

[Bryan O'Connor]

Actually talking of skipping down gears - go on YouTube and search any 70s/80s on board stuff and you will see the F1 drivers going from 5th to 3rd etc.
The braking is so short in F1 cars it almost makes sense to miss gears, otherwise you are trying to fit too much into too short a space of time.

There's also a video of Stirling Moss somewhere doing a piece for a TV programme driving the old 59 Cooper I'm sure he shifts from 4th to 2nd all the time.

And in a race where your arse is 3 inches from the floor, the actual physical act of changing gear is strenuous and the G forces make your lungs want to join your testes in your sack, saving time/energy by missing gears makes even more sense!

 

[Jan-Olov Johansson]

I would even go as far as saying it is the normal way of doing it in a manual/h-shifter car, no point in dropping down through the gears with that type of gearbox. Besides, it's how you drive in your everyday car irl isn't it ?

On seq/paddle shifted car it's a different matter for obvious reasons

 

[Chris]

When I drive my car IRL, I go down all the gears. It's smoother on the transmission, and clutch.

It's just a habit that has transferred to my sim racing as well. Skipping gears just feels wrong, lol. It's like shooting a basketball without bending your knees. It just feels wrong from the muscle memory perspective.

Also, a certain Mr. Ayrton Senna was one like me in this aspect, he chose to go through all the gears rather than skip some. Peter Windsor's article on Lewis Hamilton in the March 2014 issue of F1 Racing magazine, says:

"It's a mechanical in it's extreme, and to overlap the throttle, even for a time so small as not to be evident on digital telemetry, is to knock the mechanical joints out of sync. This is why Ayrton Senna used to downshift through every gear rather than from sixth to fourth, or from third to first. It was a mechanical thing. It had to be run in harmony with the car's other mechanical things."

But, I guess in the end, there's no right or wrong way, it's totally up to how you feel comfortable driving the car. The only pet peeve I've had with peoples downshifting is the ones who downshift too quickly with sequential gearboxes and use too much engine braking.

Watch some onboard laps of people using F1 cars in sim racing, and 95% of them smash down the gears! and hardly use the brakes at all. Use the f***ing brakes to slow the car down! not the gearbox! Haha

 

[Jan-Olov Johansson]

...

But, I guess in the end, there's no right or wrong way, it's totally up to how you feel comfortable driving the car. The only pet peeve I've had with peoples downshifting is the ones who downshift too quickly with sequential gearboxes and use too much engine braking.

Watch some onboard laps of people using F1 cars in sim racing, and 95% of them smash down the gears! and hardly use the brakes at all. Use the f***ing brakes to slow the car down! not the gearbox! Haha

I defo agree with that part, using the seq gearbox as a substitute for braking is very weird, not to mention bad for the car. Hate it when the engine screams in pain from abusing it like that...

 

[LazyBug]

The only pet peeve I've had with peoples downshifting is the ones who downshift too quickly with sequential gearboxes and use too much engine braking.

Watch some onboard laps of people using F1 cars in sim racing, and 95% of them smash down the gears! and hardly use the brakes at all. Use the f***ing brakes to slow the car down! not the gearbox! Haha

But in this case i believe the game is the one to blame because its the game allow player to do that. Beside not everyone aim for realism driving experience even playing a game like Assetto Corsa.
Its just a game after all. Why so serious ??

 

[Chris]

But in this case i believe the game is the one to blame because its the game allow player to do that. Beside not everyone aim for realism driving experience even playing a game like Assetto Corsa.
Its just a game after all. Why so serious ??

Well at the moment the game is facilitating this driving style by not penalizing spamming the downshifter with gearbox and engine damage. Obviously because Kunos haven't implemented a full mechanical damage system just yet. So the drivers who choose to downshift like this are not being penalised for it.... Yet.

Also, yes, Assetto Corsa is a game. iRacing is a game. Game Stock Car 2013 is a game. And rFactor 1 and 2 are both games. But they're also the most realistic software available for the everyday sim racer. Why wouldn't you try and drive realistically when you have realistic software to utilize?

If you're playing Mario kart, then yeah of course I'll ram people off and drive the track in reverse, etc etc. shenanigans galore. But with sim racing software, it seems appropriate to drive in a more realistic manner to try and replicate what happens in real life. That is, after all, the point of a simulation.

 

[LazyBug]

A very same student can be very quiet or very noisy depend if the teacher is there or not so people actually will adapt & change accordingly so i dont think I should worry if they will damage their car for downshifting like that or not, i believe they will change their style if the damage system is finally there.

I dont know how to answer this "Why wouldn't you try and drive realistically when you have realistic software to utilize?", all i know is that many people treat a game as a game where they can have fun doing everything they like to do, many gamer like to have the feeling that they are "controlling the game" instead of feel like they are being control by the game with so many restriction where "you cant drive like this / you should drive like that" ...

I believe many people choose to play game because gaming can help them to release tension & forget every rules & troubles in their real life for a while ... for gamer like this i dont think they really care about realistic when playing any simulator because their main purpose is simply to escape & break free & away a while from the reality where all the rules is apply.

Or again simply put it this way, everyone has their own way to enjoy any game, I personally wont bother at all if someone play AC the arcade way, i 100% fine with that as long as he/she find joy doing that, thats the reason we play game i suppose, to have fun & joy, no more no less.

 

[Chris]

I see what you're saying about people playing AC for enjoyment, regardless of driving style, and I completely agree. I have no problem with people playing AC in an arcade fashion. They're competely entitled to do what ever they like.

I'm just saying that I have a slight annoyance when I see guys on YouTube who make the engine scream in pain from using too much engine braking, all the while smashing down the gears so fast the game can't even process the sound properly. It's nothing against them personally, it's just not exactly easy on the ears.

However, my enjoyment comes from doing things as realistically as possible. Which is why I play games that try to replicate realistic situations. AC for example. Sure Assetto Corsa doesn't punish you for downshifting like a mad-man (yet), but that doesn't mean you have to exploit this.

The whole idea of using video games to escape from problems in reality isn't what I was getting at, at all.

 

[LazyBug]

First of all I hope i not sound like argue because i just thought to discuss abit about this ... I just dont get it why sometime people like to critic about other people's play style for playing merely a game.
You know there is one time i saw a video in youtube showing a guy modded his fps game (forget what game is that) so his machine gun's bullet actually explode like a grenade & he play the game explode everything just like that without even need to aim properly even the big boss dont stand a chance instantly killed by that machine gun.
Yeah the video get a lot of dislike and many negative comments but somehow i wonder what actually he did wrong by doing that ?? Thats just a game and if he actually having fun play the game like that then i say why not, i personally just dont see why the hate

 

[Chris]

First of all I hope i not sound like argue because i just thought to discuss abit about this ... I just dont get it why sometime people like to critic about other people's play style for playing merely a game.
You know there is one time i saw a video in youtube showing a guy modded his fps game (forget what game is that) so his machine gun's bullet actually explode like a grenade & he play the game explode everything just like that without even need to aim properly even the big boss dont stand a chance instantly killed by that machine gun.
Yeah the video get a lot of dislike and many negative comments but somehow i wonder what actually he did wrong by doing that ?? Thats just a game and if he actually having fun play the game like that then i say why not, i personally just dont see why the hate

Oh sorry, I don't want to come across as if I'm arguing. I'm not. Haha.

But yeah, that's really not what I'm talking about here, lol

 

[William Levesque]

As long as you dont over-rev, skipping gears is fine... Used to do it often in the Lotus 79 on iRacing, especially on short, trail braking zones.

ex: Stowe corner at Silverstone, 5th to 3rd.

 

[Rhys Gardiner]

Also, a certain Mr. Ayrton Senna was one like me in this aspect, he chose to go through all the gears rather than skip some. Peter Windsor's article on Lewis Hamilton in the March 2014 issue of F1 Racing magazine, says:
"It's a mechanical in it's extreme, and to overlap the throttle, even for a time so small as not to be evident on digital telemetry, is to knock the mechanical joints out of sync. This is why Ayrton Senna used to downshift through every gear rather than from sixth to fourth, or from third to first. It was a mechanical thing. It had to be run in harmony with the car's other mechanical things."

Otherwise a great post, but I have an issue with this section... it seems odd that people would say this when I can clearly hear Senna skipping gears in some of his onboards.

Example: here is his pole lap at Jerez in 1990. Notice that in the heavy braking zones he blips the throttle only once and moves the gear lever only once. Not saying that he'd do this all the time of course.

 

[Chris]

Otherwise a great post, but I have an issue with this section... it seems odd that people would say this when I can clearly hear Senna skipping gears in some of his onboards.

Example: here is his pole lap at Jerez in 1990. Notice that in the heavy braking zones he blips the throttle only once and moves the gear lever only once. Not saying that he'd do this all the time of course.

I think skipping gears is probably the faster method when you want to put in a banzai qualifying lap, because you get the car into the correct gear quicker, but I think Peter Windsor's article was implying he did went through every gear when in a race because it's smoother.

But hey, what a stunning lap from Senna!

 

[LazyBug]

So looks like blipping not always should do in short tapping method, longer & deeper blip should apply if one are actually doing skip gear, in case i understand it correctly from the video

 

[Redvaliant]

This is my fave onboard H pattern shifting vid. Lotus 98T at Adelaide - race lap. Dumfries goes 6-5-4-3-2-1 after the long back straight, but he only clutches 3 of those shifts. I've seen footage of Senna in the same corner going 6-2 in one shift.

 

[Dragos Haba]

If I had known people would be so hung up on me skipping a few gears I would've recorded a lap with normal downshifting.

I shift like that cause I felt like it. It's a game, I play for fun. Also I don't use auto clutch, I even wrote in the description that clutch doesn't show in replays...

Have fun and remember to always thrash it mercilessly!

I've spent a bit of time in the car but I'm not the greatest at setting it up. Ive done low 56's with the default and higher downforce and modified gears. I'd be interested in some of the parameters you changed. Any tips ?