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PC Ferrari 312T - Was it possible?

Discussion in 'Assetto Corsa' started by Matej Lakota, Mar 30, 2014.

  1. Matej Lakota

    Matej Lakota
    Sriple Tix Premium Member

    Great driving, amazing lap time, but did anybody in real life ever shift that way, from 4th directly to 1st gear, with H shifter and heel/toe, without engine or gearbox failure? Or in 0.8 that kind of damage for this car hasn˙t been evolved yet?
    Thanks.

     
  2. Chris Stacey

    Chris Stacey
    Ted Kravitz Appreciation Society Staff Premium Member

    Not sure if it's possible, but it's certainly not good for the car's transmission, drive train or engine. Whoever did this lap will suffer mightily during races when the damage system is implemented, because this kind of downshifting is very bad for the car.
    Having said that, as long as you wait for the revs and speed to drop enough, going from 4th to 2nd is okay. But it's still better for car balance to go 4th-3rd-2nd. Going from 4th-1st isn't optimal, but as long as the minimum speed is low enough, then it can work. But it still places too much strain on the car to use this method over the course of a race to expect to get to the finish line.

    I don't usually comment on people's driving and car setup, but sometimes it really irks me. At least his throttle and steering inputs are smooth and consistent. But the way some people downshift really annoys me.

    1) His car is geared too long. 5th gear is obsolete.

    2) Notice how on the entry to T1, the rear end snapped out? This is because of going from 4th to 1st, results in too much engine braking, and the rear wheels under rotate. Besides, if you've geared your car correctly, you shouldn't need to use 1st at all for a lap of the Nurburgring GP.

    3) Probably should have changed up to 3rd on the entry to the final corner as he would have lost some time banging on 2nd gear's rev limiter.


    But, in general, he's a good driver in terms of using the gears, and engine braking, and smooth throttle and steering inputs. There are some pretty shocking drivers out there who use WAY too much engine braking, and they don't get penalised for it. I really hope Kunos's damage system will crack down on these people.

    Personally I go through all the gears when downshifting. It's more work, yes, but it makes the car more stable and predictable on turn in, not to mention it's kinder on the car's mechanical components.


    /Rant over.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2014
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  3. Calum McLure

    Calum McLure
    Did ye, aye? Premium Member

    I'm sure I remember hearing that Alain Prost used to downshift like that, occasionally at least. Might have made that up though :laugh:

    DTM-E is the only game that really punishes you for aggressive engine braking, at least in my experience. I used to abuse the engine braking which caused me a lot of problems in GT cars with the rear end wanting to step out but recently started braking more with the actual brakes then bumping down the gears.
     
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  4. Matej Lakota

    Matej Lakota
    Sriple Tix Premium Member

    Yes, with that kind of engine abuse ... in some other game ... no car can˙t last more than half a lap and I am really hoping, Kunos will bring us decent damage system in 1.0. Thank you :thumbsup:.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2014
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  5. Dinca Andrei

    Dinca Andrei
    Premium Member

    I am sure they will..not sure if in Ver 1.0 but they say it will be done
     
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  6. But the thing is that since the game current physic allow him to do that so i suppose he can do that if he want, after all lap as fast as one can with any possible extreme way is the one & only matter in hotlapping.
     
  7. There is no reason why you can't change down from 4th to 1st - its not a sequential gearbox. To go from 4th to 1st is quite extreme but Jackie Stewart certainly "missed out" gears on downchanges. Whether it should damage your engine depends on what revs the engine reaches. The downshift was left very late.

    IMO its not conclusive whether engine damage is modelled or not. I'm guessing the original poster doesn't have AC. I own it but can't run it yet. Perhaps someone who does could try going from maximum revs in 4th to 1st without braking. Then again, if rev matching is required you won't be able to change gears.
     
  8. Chris Stacey

    Chris Stacey
    Ted Kravitz Appreciation Society Staff Premium Member

    There is some engine damage in the current build of the game, but it's not finalised yet. So it still needs a lot of improvement.

    So far, the only car that I can damage the engine is the BMW 1M step 3. It seems to be a little too sensitive. But I'm sure Kunos will adjust this for all cars soon enough :)
     
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  9. Matej Lakota

    Matej Lakota
    Sriple Tix Premium Member

    David, if you mean me as original poster, I have AC on my HD from minute one when it appeared on Steam and regulary drive it. The question is not if AC alows that kind of gearing (I sometimes destroy Abarth˙s 500 engine with two unsuccessful gear changes, when revs go too high) but if 312T could survive that kind of abuse in real life.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2014
  10. Pete Bone

    Pete Bone
    Premium Member

    The guy is using Auto Clutch too, watch the vid again, the blue bar never moves.
     
  11. Chris Stacey

    Chris Stacey
    Ted Kravitz Appreciation Society Staff Premium Member


    Actually we have no way of knowing.
    The clutch pedal input doesn't show up on that pedal app when your watching a replay. I tried it earlier, and it only shows the throttle and brake inputs during replay mode.
     
  12. I believe his name = Jonas Celion in RSR which his 1:55.657 rank top yesterday but looks like he lap faster some more today with 1:55.084.
    And RSR can confirm he is not using any assist.
     
  13. Pete Bone

    Pete Bone
    Premium Member

    Fair enough, iv not watched any replays so didn't know that.
     
  14. If you watch the Skip Barber instructional video on You Tube they discuss whether rowing down through all the gears one by one is better or making a single H&T shift to the final gear you want. They seem to prefer going through all the gears but accept its sometimes impractical when you have a lot of gears to shift, they mention blipping to higher revs if you're shifting to more widely spaced ratios irc.

    As long as the blip required to rev match doesn't exceed the rev limit and you don't bring the clutch up at too high a speed in a low gear then I don't see why it should cause damage.
     
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  15. I see he actually hold the brake little longer than usual before doing the downshift with a big blip from 4th straight to 1st gear so may be thats good enough to avoid damage ??

    By the way i believe irc many people dont downshift one by one driving manual car, like my father he very often straight go to 2nd or even 1st from 5th or 6th gear after slow down enough when there are traffic jam in front or some thing that force him to slow down .. I never see him downshift from 6th to 5th to 4th to 3rd to 2nd to 1st one by one like that .. just hold the brake to slow down the car enough & straight jump to 2nd or 1st.

    Actually i myself also did that whenever i drive :)
     
  16. Yes many people do skip gears, because they probably don't enjoy manual car or they simply don't give a fuss about it...

    I am that weirdo who downshifts through every gear, revmaching or heel toeing, even going to grocery store etc.

    One of the most famous racing drivers who skipped gears was Alan Prost, and I hate him for that, because it's ugly imho. The best sound racing car can make is when doing hard breaking and shifting from 6-5-4-3-2-1 with perfect blip on each downshift.

    like this guy
     
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  17. That was music to my ears :)
     
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  18. With a 6 speed transmission shifting down from 6th to 2nd takes me a fair amount of time. Couple that with trying to keep even pressure on the brake pedal while H&Ting and it's a lot easier to concentrate on braking and just make one shift imo.
     
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  19. If I had known people would be so hung up on me skipping a few gears I would've recorded a lap with normal downshifting. :rolleyes:

    I shift like that cause I felt like it. It's a game, I play for fun. Also I don't use auto clutch, I even wrote in the description that clutch doesn't show in replays...

    Have fun and remember to always thrash it mercilessly! :thumbsup:
     
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  20. Dinca Andrei

    Dinca Andrei
    Premium Member

    I am 3 seconds slower than you...i wonder how much faster some one can go around Nurb with this car....if some one goes below that with another second i might consider doing the driving school again :confused:...lol
     
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