PC1 False advertising

[Björn Spindel]

I've seen many evangelists and perhaps even the developers themselves refer to Project C.A.R.S. as a "sim" or "simulator". Normally this term is used to describe software that tries to mimic reality. There is nothing wrong with arcade racers so why not just call the game by its real name and stop trying to advertise it as something it's not? There's no shame in admitting that Project C.A.R.S. doesn't try to be realistic. There's a big market for this type of game, even bigger so than for the niche sims, so please stop trying to fool people and aim for your target audience instead.

 

[Senad Subasic]

I once killed the engine in netKar, by shifting from 5th to 2nd. A tactic that works fine in Race 07

 

[t.o.]

I once killed the engine in netKar, by shifting from 5th to 2nd. A tactic that works fine in Race 07

You guys do know I'm talking about the gears themselves, not wrecking the engine or whatever from wrong rev shifting. I'm talking about missing the shift by not having the clutch in properly when shifting and grinding up the gears.

I never seen this in rFactor or any other game. RBR does this?

 

[Senad Subasic]

You guys do know I'm talking about the gears themselves, not wrecking the engine or whatever from wrong rev shifting. I'm talking about missing the shift by not having the clutch in properly when shifting and grinding up the gears.

I never seen this in rFactor or any other game. RBR does this?

RBR has gearbox damage, you can kill it by shifting badly.
netKar doesn't have gearbox damage as far as I know, but it's very easy to miss a shift or stall.

 

[Xosé Estrada]

@t.o. is not a single realistic feature what it makes it a simulation, but in general.

 

[logos]

@t.o.
There is Grinding Tranny Mod for rFactor which simulates this, but yes in the standard game you cannot damage the gearbox not using the clutch.

 

[Kevin Jay]

I've seen many evangelists and perhaps even the developers themselves refer to Project C.A.R.S. as a "sim" or "simulator". Normally this term is used to describe software that tries to mimic reality. There is nothing wrong with arcade racers so why not just call the game by its real name and stop trying to advertise it as something it's not? There's no shame in admitting that Project C.A.R.S. doesn't try to be realistic. There's a big market for this type of game, even bigger so than for the niche sims, so please stop trying to fool people and aim for your target audience instead.

At what point do we stop using silly terms like arcade, simcade, realcade, or whatever? There are countless threads with people regurgitating the same statements over and over with absolutely no details of what they feel makes the game worthy of such criticism. This isn't just a pCars issue either. This comes up in regards to every "racing sim" released over the last 10+ years.
Some examples of extremely vague criticisms:
1. It's arcadeish - This is probably the most useless phrase possible yet it is used constantly
2. The physics suck. - The second most uselesss phrase commonly used. What part of the physics suck? Under what conditions? What is your reasoning for this and are they real or imagined?
3. The car does feel connected - ???????
4. The brakes don't feel connected to the whole car - ??????
There are many more examples that can be found be reading the many threads on this and other forums where people make the same statements.

I think it would be interesting if people would turn off the FFB and turn some laps in multiple cars in the various games then come back and give some thoughtful and detailed comments on what they feel is wrong and why the term SIM is deserved or not.

 

[isamu]

^^ Agreed

 

[t.o.]

@t.o. is not a single realistic feature what it makes it a simulation, but in general.

That's the whole point. Forza is a simulation in my book. As with most of the games. Now the features determine , to me at least, the different levels of hardcoreness. My definition of sim is basically if two people go out on the same track and one applies correct technique and one just goes balls out if the one with the technique gets around the track faster then that's a sim game to me.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

A sim is an attempt at mimicking reality, in our case we're dealing with racing cars, so that's the basis of the simulation, IOW, the more realistic the cars are, the more of a sim it is, so for example, while the iracing package can be deemed as quite hardcore, imagine popping Mario Kart in there as the driving model.

 

[Dazmaniac]

You are stretching a bit here. Of course its trying to be realistic, they are even working on a new tire model. It may have some arcade elements right now but its not like its grid or anything.

A New Tyre Model alone does not guarantee that PCARS will be a sim, whether they crack it or not.

iRacing (and Dave Kaemmer especially) are still trying to crack this nut.

There are many other elements that go towards a title being classed as a sim, besides tyre modelling.

 

[Klazerman]

A sim is an attempt at mimicking reality, in our case we're dealing with racing cars, so that's the basis of the simulation, IOW, the more realistic the cars are, the more of a sim it is, so for example, while the iracing package can be deemed as quite hardcore, imagine popping Mario Kart in there as the driving model.

How do you as a user measure how "sim" a game is?

edit: I mean, how do you measure a subjective feeling?

 

[Nathan Robinson]

A New Tyre Model alone does not guarantee that PCARS will be a sim, whether they crack it or not.

iRacing (and Dave Kaemmer especially) are still trying to crack this nut.

There are many other elements that go towards a title being classed as a sim, besides tyre modelling.

I agree, thats why I didnt say the new tire model will make definitely make it a sim. The OP was saying it wasn't realistic at all and I was just talking against that

 

[Dazmaniac]

I agree, thats why I didnt say the new tire model will make definitely make it a sim. The OP was saying it wasn't realistic at all and I was just talking against that

Agree Nate.

Wasn't picking fault at what you said, just using your quote and elaborating a little.

 

[Dazmaniac]

How do you as a user measure how "sim" a game is?

edit: I mean, how do you measure a subjective feeling?

How do you measure how sim a game is?

Just in case you pick fault with David's reply, should he choose to do so.

 

[Klazerman]

How do you measure how sim a game is?

Just in case you pick fault with David's reply, should he choose to do so.

No, seriously. I was wondering how you measure how you know how accurate a sim is. Relax dude, I was not baiting anyone to fail at their arguments or anything.

edit: maby I should answer the q as well. I don't measure the "simness" of any game. I just play the ones I like and feel has a fair feeling to it. I never raced most of the cars in the games I play and all I know is that I have never played any game / sim that has made me feel like that it is rather what it would feel like in reality.

 

[Hiroshi Awazu]

So with what has happened here in the past while, someone just had to start another thread that can potentially derail.

 

[Xosé Estrada]

So with what has happened here in the past while, someone just had to start another thread that can potentially derail.

Let's hope not, but I would like the OP to change the title to something more relaxed to be honest.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

How do you as a user measure how "sim" a game is?

edit: I mean, how do you measure a subjective feeling?

I use the sim index....this was codified by Inside Sim Racing, but in essence, all people deeply concerned with proper realism at the ground level use this measure, ie, steering precision, FFB and physics.

This part is the no1 factor in how I rate a sim, and with the exception of pcars and a few much older sims, all modern sims score very highly on this index, usually somewhere between 8-9.5/10.

If you look at a game like F1 2011, it has ordinary steering precision, and poor FFB....the steering is so bad in comparison to something like FVA, that by that criteria alone I disqualify it as a sim.

I don't know how F1 2011 performs with a gamepad on PS3, but if it drives well, then the average person might truly enjoy it, but it's garbage by many criteria's from my POV.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

How do you measure how sim a game is?

They judge games by fun factor alone, physics and all that jazz are irrelevant.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

3. The car does feel connected - ???????
.

Good question, and cars like GSC Camaro/V8SC, rf2, F2/3, Simbin C6R/USMuscle etc all feel beautifully connected to the road, in fact, I was surprised how well Simbin's cars drive at Adelaide 2011......as I'd been on GSC and rf2 and thought the Adelaide layout would show them up, but instead, I was surprised how precisely they drove.